God or science?

Question

"When the theologian governed the world, it was covered with huts and hovels for the man, palaces and cathedrals for the few...the poor were clad in rags and skins--they devoured crusts, and gnawed bones. The day of science dawned, and...there is more of value in the brain of an average man of today--of a master mechanic, of a chemist, of a naturalist, of an inventor, than there was in the brain of the world four hundred years ago.

These blessings did not fall from the skies. These benefits did not drop from the outstretched hands of priests. They were not found in cathedrals or behind altars--neither were they searched for with hold candles. They were not discovered by the closed eyes of prayer, nor did they come in answer to superstitious supplication. They are the children of freedom, the gifts of reason, observation and experience--and for them all, man is indebted to man."

Ingersoll's essay "God and the Constitution."

A close friend e-mailed me this essay. I thought this was the most defining part of the text. Maybe it is not God vs. Science. Maybe it is both. I don’t know, but it reinforced what I am. An atheist.

Answer 1

I feel man is free and not in debt to God nor man, but some men invented the god concept to control other men.

The age of reason simply liberates us from the idea that we need control by "god"; but there are still those who would wish to control us by other devices.

I wish to remain a free person, and that my government would exist to protect my freedom.

Answer 2

that's cool. but it reinforced my belief in the God of the Bible. because now that we have science, and wealth is more spread out (at least in many countries) doesn't mean we have less Christians. 'palaces and cathedrals for the few...the poor were clad in rags and skins' sure doesn't represent the Christianity of the bible that i read. this page could be filled with verses that speak to helping the poor, giving to those in need, and how tough it is for the rich to enter the kinddom of heaven.

"They are the children of freedom, the gifts of reason, observation and experience--and for them all, man is indebted to man." --maybe so, maybe not. but it is interesting that reason, observation, experience, and logic have not been able to explain our existance, past or future to either christians or not. stephen hawking, a 'brilliant' man, had to go to Y/A to ask a very important question about humankinds future because he can't even find it himself.

however, i would much rather be an atheist than to blindly accept what my parents taught me. and i did both for a while. then i found that jerry falwell, george w., and james dobson don't represent the bible that i have. their personal opinions get in the way of their spiritual beliefs, and it gets tangled up in a political mess. i see that with lots of christians. or, i see christians that will try to change the bible and 'what it means to us today' so that they can better fit in with society's changing norms and values, such as homosexuality. anyhoo, sorry this is so long.

Answer 3

On a world-wide level, seems like there's not all that much difference between then and now!
We still have people living in huts and clothed in rags, some without even a crust to gnaw while the relative few live in 'palaces' finer than most of those in the past.

Answer 4

...Surely it is evident in all these views presented here that science not only fits the first definition of Entropy with its systematic recording of data and conclusions but, goes even a step further to include updates to its previous findings. The scientific arguments and theories fit the evidence. The works of Hawking, Einstein, Kepler, Newton and Copernicus explain how the universe works. The works of Jung, Freud. Kant, Maslow, and Baldwin explain how we work within our environs. Thousands of other top scholars and intellectuals have provided the world with uncountable applicable information’s. The bible explains nothing to us. It gives us no usable information. In all of its content it gives not one clue or shred of evidence that man can follow up on and has become nothing more than a security blanket for the uninformed.

Entropy as a system that when left to itself has a tendency to descend into chaos. Religion was invented as an answer at a time when people had no answers, when they were ignorant and living in fear. We now live in an age where we have overcome our ignorance at the cost of millions of innocent people’s lives. We have moved into an era of knowledge. Yet we are all still rallied around belief systems maintained by fear.

In general, Man feels that it's perfectly alright to continue to embrace religion out of fear and to seek comfort because science provides no "ultimate answers". But, neither does the Bible. To claim religion is fact, the only fact, the eternal true fact, and reject the true-life knowledge presented by those credentialed to do such work for the common good of Man is nothing short of willful ignorance and reckless negligence.

Any Christian site one may go to on the internet is the same. They have all already drawn the conclusion of a deity, a genesis, and who is eligible and ineligible to belong to their belief system. Furthermore, they all use the same pseudo scientific method in an attempt to prove their claims. The problem becomes immediately evident when it is proven wrong and void under methods of unbiased scientific testing. For example: The Bible was taken literally for many centuries. Unexpectedly, science puts forth not only the Big Bang Theory, but also implicates the steps that the earth went thru during its creation. Oh no! Suddenly a re-interpretation of the bible is needed to keep the faithful from straying. With that in mind, the popular story is now how God's days are thousands and thousands, and thousands of years long. We now have to warp the beliefs of the past that have stood for two-thousand years around the facts, as they're presented, in the present. That my friends is not research, by any definition, it is pure and simple indoctrination.

Something else becomes observable in this hoodoo between Science and Christianity. That the difference between the two is simply, with faith, if even one aspect of the God-figure is disproved, if even one page is shown to be bogus then the whole foundation begins to crumble. I have spent two-thirds of my life researching these contensions.

Simply put, it's impossible for faith to advance in any direction because of the attitude toward scientific findings.


Have a great day! Prof. J

Answer 5

Katy,
You're seperating things that don't need to be seperated. There's no contradiction between God and science. GOD CREATED SCIENCE!!!! He created the laws of physics, gravity, math, etc. We are just trying to understand them.

There is a contradiction between evolution and God because evolution is not science. It is just as religious as Christianity. It is false science backed up by lies.

Think about this...Evolution theory has nothing to do with computers, machines, industrialization or even medicine (your field). You are lead to believe that it is, but it really isn't. Do you think that a doctor thinking about if a person used to be a fish or not has anything to do with how he performs surgery?

Christians don't object to science at all. The ONLY thing we object to is evolution theory. That is such a small percentage of one scientific field and yet we are labelled as against science. Since when is evolution the only form of science there is?

The origin of life is completely unrelated to science. It is impossible to prove either way so it is philosophical by nature.

I am very knowledgable on this subject and have done much research on it. If you want, you can contact me and we can discuss this.

Answer 6

I don't think science precludes the concept of divinity. Knowledge is indeed powerful. The things which you speak of, i.e. priests, cathedrals, palaces... these aren't "God." They are the desires of theologians (as you call them) for power and control over the rest of man. I am not a believer in religions as they are Man's interpretation of "The Truth." I do have faith, but that is not ruled by any religion. My faith is actually something that I found while studying physics, therefore "God" and science are the same thing to me.

Answer 7

God or Science is the right topic.
What is science and what is god.
What is known is science and the unknown is god.
In what ever you go, the micro structure like the human cells or macro like the universe we have the limited knowledge. There is unknown. The known is science and the unknown is god. You may decide what god is based on that. As you progress more and more in science there will be still unknown. Hence is not possible for us to decide everything. Hence the god.

Answer 8

yes and with science most of the world is in poverty and getting poorer, not better. With science the western world went out and brutally colonized the rest of the world. With science we are now polluting the world like never before and have the ability to destroy all life on earth in an hour.

yes, science has brought some good, but it has also been used for a lot of evil

Answer 9

As one with a graduate degree in science and a strong former atheist. Follow this logic for a moment.

Darwin gave intellectuals a basis to believe in natural, biological creation. Google evolution fact or fiction. The fossil record is a fact. However, no one can prove how "new" genetic code was created. This "how did it happen" part of evolution is purely a hypothesis, even today.

Now why is this a problem? Check your history. In the mid 1800's, Darwin's hypothesis of purely biological creation led to godless political philosophies that have been and are the most oppressive that have ever existed. The Nazi’s were given a scientific justification for ethnic cleansing (Jews), and many nations use this justification today. The godless Marxists eliminate (kill) capitalists and (kill) believers and (kill) anyone else who gets in their way to create a dreary and oppressive society. Open your eyes, would you like to live in Cuba or North Korea, or during Stalin's programs and Mao's revolution. 10's of millions of people suffered and died.

The message of God is to love God with all your heart, and love others as you love yourself. That is a good message.

Some people do go off message, and we need to realize that they only believe in their selves and their own goals, not in a creator.

Here is why this is so important. Philosophically, since God is a creator, he created each of us for a reason. Thus, each of us are unique, and have a god given purpose for life that we need to achieve whether janitor, lawyer, doctor, actor, quarterback, whatever. This totally aligns with the sanctity of human life. Thus, government should protect each of our individual rights and allow each of us to find our destiny. This aligns with a society that believes in a creator and freedom of religion. That is a good thing.

I deeply fear Godless societies. Government should respect the free expression of religion of people and communities. Belief in a creator is vital to the health of a society.

Here is my test for you: when you have a child, just look in their eyes and tell them they are a random quirk of nature and in the grand scheme of nature, their life is meaningless. I dare you. Yet, that is the intellectual dead-end of existence, if we are just random quirks of nature.

Thus, if science can get to the point to showing that genetic code cannot be created naturally, not adaption of existing code, then there will be a complete change in philosophy and political philosophy to align with freedom and protection of individual rights. Until then, is it a choice that works for us, but cannot be justified.

By the way, how did the brain get programmed for eyesight. To accept 2 images, combine them, to provide near instant assessment and response, millions of lines of unbelievably brilliant genetic code, how did that happen. We could put 1000 genius's to work on this today for 10 years, and they would not be able to figure out how to do that today. Not only is there no randomness, there is unimaginably brilliant creation involved.

Last, The US was formed by a group of theists that allowed liberty. We are very scientifically advanced. Politically, religion must stay out of government, for your quote is what happens when they do not.

Answer 10

No sciences are better attested the in the Bible--Isaac Newton.

There is NO ascertained fact of science with which the Bible is out of harmony.There are some hypotheses of scientific investigators which are out of harmony with the Bible. But there is a Great difference between hypotheses and ESTABLISHED FACT!!