Ones free will?

Question

I see people telling others to believe, in God. Isn't there supposed to be free will? The choice to decide; to believe in him, in something else, or nothing at all.

And isn't it wrong to try to force belief in Him?

Answer 1

You can either have an omniscient god, or you can have 'fee will'. You can't have both.

'Omniscience' is logically incompatible with 'free will'. 'Omniscience', all by itself, is sufficient to put the lid on 'free will'; omnipresence and omnipotence are irrelevant. It is not necessary for god to intervene in order to negate 'free will' as a possibility. Omniscience negates free will all by itself.

If we really DO have 'free will', then an omniscient god is logically excluded. The logical fallacy lies in the premise that if god is omniscient, all outcomes are already known to god... everything that you think, decide and do... and everything that you WILL think, decide, and do.

For an omniscient being, all of existence over all of time is laid out as a tapestry before him... past, present and future, down to the smallest detail of material, of thought and of deed, and all is constantly in his awareness. There is no past, present and future from that perspective... there is only an eternal 'now'.

If that is the case, since god already knows everything that will happen, then everything is already decided... and as we go along through life, we are merely doing what has already been seen by god. Since god knows and sees everything that will happen, NOTHING that we think or do can be contrary to what god already sees and knows. We might THINK we have free will... but since we are merely acting out what god already sees and knows, this can be no more than an ILLUSION of free will.

Put another way, if you come to a point of decision, you have no choice but to take the path that god already knows you will take... there is no other option. That works all the way down the path of cause-and-effect... and, along the way, it even casts doubt on the validity of the concept of cause and effect. I don't want to get into that, though... it makes my hair hurt.

So, imagine that since before time began, since before the universe was created, god has 'known' that you would come to a point of decision at some spatial and temporal coordinate, and that faced with the possible paths A and B, you would take path A.

Now, during the course of your life, you arrive at that spatial and temporal coordinate where this choice exists. You evaluate the potential outcomes, and you have it in your head that you have 'free will', and thus, you are free to choose between path A and path B. However, since god is 'omniscient', and god 'knows' that you will take path 'A', then path B IS NOT an option... it IS NOT a matter of choice... it is a 'NECESSITY'. OF NECESSITY, you WILL take path A. Not 'must'... not 'can'... WILL take path A. You DO NOT have a choice. Path B is NOT an option... it is not even a POSSIBILITY. The best that you can achieve is the ILLUSION that you are free to choose.

So, either god is omniscient OR we have free will. It is QUITE IMPOSSIBLE for BOTH of these conditions to coexist.

The only way out of this logical dilemma is to limit god's power; i.e., start taking away things that god can see and know, until we get to a point where free will BECOMES a possibility. But when we start doing that, then he ceases to be omniscient... and thus ceases to be a 'supreme being'.

So... free will is an impossibility concomitant with an omniscient diety. The following sums up the possibilities:

1. There is no omniscient diety... therefore, the whole argument is stupid and irrelevant.

2. IF we possess 'free will' AND god exists, THEN, of necessity, it is IMPOSSIBLE that god is omniscient. (This does not preclude the notion of 'god'... it just means that he can't be as 'supreme' as one might think he is... or wish him to be.) You are (logically) obliged to acknowledge that god CAN NOT BE all knowing... and since omniscience is one of the things that makes god 'all powerful', then this means that god CAN NOT BE omnipotent, either.

3. IF god exists AND god is omniscient THEN, OF NECESSITY, it is IMPOSSIBLE that that we have free will, and you are (metaphorically speaking) nothing more than a piece on god's eternal game board; and, thus, "... man is not responsible for his actions."

Personally, I vote for number 1. You can pick any one you want... but YOU MUST PICK ONE, because there are NO OTHER possible outcomes... NO OTHER logically valid choices.

It is unfortunate (for the Abrahamic death cults of desert monotheism) that the concepts of god were solidified as dogma a few thousand years before the philosophical discipline of 'logic' was dreamed up by the Greeks. Those that concocted the religion did not have access to the intellectual tools that would have enabled them to realize that they had 'screwed the pooch' with respect to assigning god's impossible attributes. It wasn't until the 4th century that this logical impossibility garnered serious attention, and churchmen got their theological 'dancin' shoes' on, trying to weasel their way out of the logical dilemma.

They did not succeed, and this issue continues to be debated even 'til this day. This logical dilemma (and the resulting 'cognitive dissonance') was a key element in some of the various 'heresies' that were spawned in the early days of Christianity.

However, the simple observation that these impossible beliefs still exist shows that this does not seem to have been a very big hindrance, under the simple expediency that "There is no problem so big that we cannot ignore it, until it will go away." Too bad for them, though... it DOESN'T go away.

Corporate religion is helped along by the fact that most 'believers' do not employ logic or critical thinking skills; heck... that's why they're believers in the first place. If they employed logic and critical thinking, they WOULD NOT BE believers. So, even though these concepts create a logical impossibility, it does not seem to present a significant problem for them.

Answer 2

God will continue to exist with or without a persons permission or belief in him/her. We all have free will to think whatever we want, to change our minds about that thought any time we choose to, and to live or die with or without ever believing in the existence of the higher power.

It is not wrong to try to force someone else to believe, because that's the "freedom of will". The convincer is not any more wrong than the unbeliever. And anyone with common sense would realize that it is impossible to force belief.

We are all free to choose what/where/when or if....we will believe in a higher power.

Answer 3

Yeah ! there should be will for the people to believe or not to belive in GOD. but if you are grownup with adopting manners from your parents then dear U will not ask for the will and automaticaly goes to the parents way and will believe in the GOD.

There is some supernatural power which is running this world and science has also agreed that sometimes things are controlled by some one else who is ineligibile.

But there must be a will whether U believe or not in the GOD.
U believe or not it does't matter but in hard times 101% people takes the name and shelter of GOD. Thax

Answer 4

Telling someone about God and telling them to accept God doesn't mean you are trying to force him to do anything. If you are in a river and headed for a waterfall that you are unaware of, and I am on the shore with a life preserver, I will, out of concern for your life, keep throwing the preserver to you, hoping you will grab it and keep alive. But, the choice is still yours. I cannot force you. I can only love you and care about you and hope that something will change the next time I throw it and you will grab hold.

Answer 5

Freedom of speech doesn't give one a license.

Atheists have right not to be exposed to views that they don't want to hear. Christians on the other hand have right to express their views.

Evangelism v. Proselytism
The difference between the two terms is not easily defined. What one person considers legitimate evangelising, or witness bearing, another may consider intrusive and improper.

Answer 6

Absolutely - no one should be forced to believe anything. Everyone has the right and responsibility to investigate the truth for themselves. If someone does not want to hear about religion and God they should be left to themselves. As the Baha'i Writings state - "Let him that seeketh, attain it; and as to him that hath refused to seek it -- verily, God is Self-Sufficient, above any need of His creatures."
- Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah

Answer 7

*I am not forcing* but it never hurts to believe and to trust in God. Everyone needs hope and guidance, and if they find that by following a specific religion/believing in god, then let it be. Even if 'God' does not exist, its a way of life to clear your consience and make you aware of your actions. A constant reminder to live a full and honest life :)

Answer 8

Yes, there is free will, but part of religion is evangelizing and it doesn't hurt to try and talk to someone about it. No one said it has to be crammed down their throat and there's no forcing one to believe in something they don't, unless they drugged and in some cult and brain washed too........

Answer 9

Yup. The people forcing religion on the person in question believe that they are saving the person in question if they convert them to their religion (mostly christianity since its basically the only religion that has active recruiters) so they don't understand why anyone would object.

techincally it's wrong, but what are you gonna do? its a christian world

Answer 10

Yes. I strongly agree that no one should be force into a belief.