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I Timothy 2 says:
3) For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

So God will have (or wants) all men to be saved, but will he act on his desires?

Isaiah 46 says:
10) Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.

So the conclusion is clear:
- God want all mankind to be saved, and
- God will do all his pleasure, therefore
- All mankind will be saved.

Feel free to list the verses that teach that punishment in Hell is eternal. This will, of course, only show that you believe in a book of contradictions.

Good day.

2006-08-20 17:07:22 · 41 answers · asked by 8 1 in Society & Culture Religion & Spirituality

I like how people give me that meaningless "thumbs down" mark. I guess it's understandable, since it's the only way to vent your frustration at me after I just owned you hard, and proved to you--from your own Bible--that everyone will be saved.

2006-08-20 17:13:05 · update #1

I did not misunderstand anything. The words are plain as day. Either refute me, or accept my words as I read them from the Bible.

2006-08-20 17:14:24 · update #2

"1) God wants all people to be saved.
2) But God also wants them to have free will.
3) Thus, salvation is left up to each person's choice."

That contradicts I Tim 2 and Isaiah 46.

Bam.

Nice try, you lose by believing a book of contradictions.

2006-08-20 17:15:25 · update #3

"He will (would) have all men saved if they obey. If I offer you something and you don't accept it you can't receive it. John 3:16 says "should not perish" not "will not persh." Is your quote from the NIV or newer translation of the Bible?"

The verses in I Timothy and Isaiah say nothing about obedience.

Bam.

Nice try. But you also lose.

2006-08-20 17:16:19 · update #4

"Because God gives man free will, he allows us to choose whether we accept him or not. And by accepting him we will be saved.

So yes, God wants us all to be saved, but it doesn't mean we all will."

Are you all blind? Isaiah 46 says that God WILL DO EVERYTHING HE WANTS.

How can you say to me that God wants all mankind to be saved, and then turn around and tell me it's not going to happen, when Isaiah 46 says that God will do everything he wants?

Bam.

You lose.

2006-08-20 17:17:30 · update #5

"If the book is all contradictions why do you quote from it?
What are you after?"

You need to learn the basics of logic and argument.

Go to preschool.

2006-08-20 17:19:19 · update #6

"God wants everyone to know him and to be saved - that doesn't mean they will be."

I Tim 2 says that God wants all men to be saved. Isaiah 46 says that everything God wants will happen.

Bam.

You lose by contradicting Isaiah 46.

2006-08-20 17:20:35 · update #7

"There is no guarantee of salvation, as we have free will."

These verses say that God will do what he wants. Human "free will" has nothing to do with it. God wants all to be saved, and God will do all that he wants. Therefore, all will be saved.

You lose.

2006-08-20 17:21:50 · update #8

"First of all you self righteous moron, you are taking scriptures inspired by YOUR CREATOR and trying to interpret them in your own carnal mind."

This is an "ad hominem" attack, and is not a proper logical argument.

You lose, and fail at life.

2006-08-20 17:22:35 · update #9

"Try a good psychotherapists before you start trying to figure out the Bible with a carnal mind...You will never be able to do it until you give your heart and life to Jesus Christ."

No, all you need to do is prove to me that God will not do all that he wants, and the discussion is over. You have not done that. In fact, to do so would be to contradict Isaiah 46.

You fail.

2006-08-20 17:23:38 · update #10

"He does want ALL to be saved, but it is up to the individual. choose this day whom you serve. You Choose. All mankind will not be saved, only the souls that believe on Jesus Christ as their Personal Savior."

Wrong. The Bible says that God will do everything he wants, and he wants to save all mankind. The solution is obvious.

You fail.

2006-08-20 17:24:57 · update #11

"You've found the outward call vs. the specific call of His own. So what?"

I see no verses backing that up.

You fail.

2006-08-20 17:26:10 · update #12

"GOD said in revelations that none would be lost however those last diehards to enter in will be thrown into the lake of fire. They are like all GODS children,pure GOLD and the lake of fire will burn the dross off of them so they to will shine like all the rest of GODS children."

Thank you for contradicting I Tim 2 and Isaiah 46. Have a nice day.

2006-08-20 17:27:14 · update #13

"1 Timothy you refer to refers to God wanting everyone to be saved."

That's exactly what I said. Please gain reading comprehension skills before posting.

2006-08-20 17:27:58 · update #14

41 answers

i dont agree

2006-08-20 17:14:01 · answer #1 · answered by Anonymous · 1 1

Welcome to the Universalist perspective, hundreds of years old. I am a sixth generation Universalist, now Unitarian Universalist.

I was once in a conversation with a classmate of mine at a college reunion. He had become a Christian minister and he and I were discussing the idea of Hell and faith. He asked me if I didn't believe in Hell, what compelled me to be good. My answer to him was this premise. If you do something "bad" it is usually to get ahead in some way, extra money, power or other advantage. If in the end, your reward, not matter how hard you lie, cheat and steal, is going to be the same as mine, what is your motivation to be bad? Interestingly enough, he had no answer for this.

One of the tenants of Unitarian Universalism, that makes it so difficult, is the never ending search for truth and meaning. This means that we must listen to others, even those with whom we do not agree, to see if there is some grain of truth in what they have to share. It is also our responsibility to continually challenge our own faith position to see if it needs adjusting.

I get the feeling from your post that meaningful dialog was not your objective. Your continual use of the expression "bam" tends to indicate a desire to put down the other individual instead of enter into meaningful interchange. To have a real discussion, each side has to be willing to entertain, if only for the briefest moment, that they might be wrong, that perhaps it is the other person who will be enlightening them rather than the other way round.

I enjoy a good discussion as much as I enjoy a good game or other competition, but I only want to participate in any of these with the person again if I feel that I have been given a fair chance to "play" and that my opponent has treated me fairly.

2006-08-27 11:19:41 · answer #2 · answered by Magic One 6 · 0 0

WRONG - Good try though.
God wants everyone to know him and to be saved - that doesn't mean they will be. He will not just save you because you died and he feels sorry for you because you were not smart enough to believe in him. No - you have to make that decision and they he will save you. What that means is all men who come to acknowledge that he is the truth and he is real will be saved.

You can not take it so literal - the Bible needs to be interpreted. and you can't just take one verse - read before and after to get the full meaning. This talks about how God is the only God, there is no other. How some will deny him and so forth - try reading it all.you might actually learn something.

2006-08-20 17:18:37 · answer #3 · answered by Anonymous · 1 0

Well placed argument with good supporting information. I seldom see that here. There are a few things that I think you should address.

Premis 1
-God wants all mankind to be saved
You must define mankind and saved. This premis also has a hidden premis that God must first be real.

Premis 2
-God will do all his pleasure
There is nothing stating a timeframe for this action. Is God going to change his mind? You have pointed that that would show that the bible contridicts its self. Aparently that is not new news to either of us.

Premis 3
-All mankind will be saved
Saved needs to be defined. Again no time frame in this premis. Saved for a second then damed for the rest of time does me little good.

All in all, very thought provoking. Thumbs up. I enjoyed it.

2006-08-20 18:05:34 · answer #4 · answered by upallnite 5 · 0 1

The Scriptures you quote are one of many translations and they are fairly accurate. It is your interprettion that is inaccurate. 1 Timothy 2 addresses the situation that was apparant in Ephesus where the people were refusing to pray fpr pagans and were reminded that God cares for "wills" all peoples salvation.
In Isaiah 46 God is simply bearing out the truth through the prophet Isaiah... His will prevails, despite what we believe. You can believe in hell or not, scripture is clear about its existence.

2006-08-20 17:29:29 · answer #5 · answered by Robert L 4 · 1 0

This is why Scripture uses disclaimers that make people think
there is no reincarnation. Because God knows the silly notions man gets. Like, "If I'm going to live again. I'll do what I want in
this life, and get it right in the next."
But reincarnation is not some wonderful thing God created.
It's us farting around in the spirit world just like we do in this
world.
There is no guarantee of salvation, as we have free will. Scripture says the fearful and unbelieving will have their part in
the Lake of Fire. And fear and unbelief come from guilt, due
our silly acting.
God doesn't make anybody go to hell. But He doesn't make
anybody go to Heaven either. Think about it!

2006-08-20 17:19:12 · answer #6 · answered by Anonymous · 0 1

Yes I see your point, BUT I'd rather not waste my time doing stuff that is gonna make the world any worst than it already is. My actions will be listed in the book of life. And if I am accountable for all I do. I've got a lot of making up to do. And proving I have learned something while I was on earth.

2006-08-28 17:04:02 · answer #7 · answered by Spann M 2 · 0 0

You are way off base. Your are taking a couple verses and misunderstanding everything.
You are interpreting that wrong. You need only look to the book of Romans

10:9 if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and obey with your heart God raised him from the dead you will be saved!
1 Timothy refers to God WANTING everyone to be saved. Not that THEY WILL BE already. This is one of the passages that that clearly wants us to go out and minister to others and bring them to God

Thats not what you said . Look at it again, then you get some comprehension skills

He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

2006-08-20 17:26:06 · answer #8 · answered by PMW1718 3 · 1 0

What translation do you use? Mine is ESV and it says in 1st timothy 2 verse 4: "Who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth".
And although he would like us all saved, He must die for every man he wants saved. could you do it? God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy.

And if you believe that the translations were tampered with a whole lot, read it in original greek and hebrew. look at multiple translations, and just look at the facts before posting a heresy.

2006-08-20 17:19:04 · answer #9 · answered by Anonymous · 0 0

nanipms,the bible is like a ladder,once you learn a thuth you have to let go and move to the next rung or you will become confused. yes GOD said in revelations that none would be lost however those last diehards to enter in will be thrown into the lake of fire. They are like all GODS children,pure GOLD and the lake of fire will burn the dross off of them so they to will shine like all the rest of GODS children. LOVE Whistle Britches.

2006-08-20 17:25:09 · answer #10 · answered by Weldon 5 · 0 0

You sound very confused Naipms.
Try a good psychotherapists before you start trying to figure out the Bible with a carnal mind...You will never be able to do it until you give your heart and life to Jesus Christ.

2006-08-20 17:19:46 · answer #11 · answered by Anonymous · 0 0

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