Why do atheists strawman their arguments against religion?

Question

Atheists often point to the bad things done in the name of religion to say religion is the root of all evil, but that's flawed because religion doesn't lose or gain merit based on the fact that people like to twist it for their own selfish purposes. There are often other underlying motives like politics or greed. Would you ever hear atheists saying that sex or money is the root of all evil, because they lead to rape, pedophilia,stds, adultery, robbery, fraud, and murder? A lot of atheists also assume or simply want to believe that because Hitler was a Catholic, he killed the Jews based on religion. Anti-Semitism in the 20th century was primarily racial and Hitler wanted to create an Aryan race. A Christian with some Jewish blood was still defined as a Jew. Stalin and Mao killed more
people than all the religious wars combined, so does that make atheism lose merit?

The argument that the majority of crimes are commited by people with religious beliefs is flawed because atheists have always only made up a small percentage of the world's population, and correlation doesn't imply causation.

Thanks for proving me right about some atheists strawmaning their arguments. Your argument contains several errors in it. You took a census out of context in an attempt to show a cause and effect relationship, without considering the various other factors like socioeconomic conditions. It would just as be easy to jump to false conclusions based on the disproportionate representation of race in prisons if you didn’t consider the other factors. Also, some inmates were bad to begin with and later converted in prison, due to the fact that Christians often like to evangelize among the marginals in society. Furthermore, many people, especially in the U.S., claim to be of a certain religion without really taking it seriously. Being Christian like isn’t merely avoiding committing crimes, while gloating over your own self-righteousness. Do you believe in loving your enemies and turning the other cheek?

Regarding the quote, the assertion that people are religious because they’re antisocial hermits who lack any ambition in life shows a complete lack of objectivity or knowledge. What about all the people who spent their lives fighting social injustice like Martin Luther King or Gandhi? Finally, the point of my argument wasn’t to compare atheists with a specific group like Christians, but to say that you shouldn’t generalize about religion. You sound like some member of American atheists, and even many atheists consider organizations like those to be a joke.

Answer 1

As a rule, atheists that I have known live far more ethical lives, and behave much more 'morally' than most so-called 'Christians' that I have known. In other words (behavior-wise), the atheists are more 'christian' than the Christians.

It is very sad (and scary) to find out that you are incapable of behaving ethically as a matter of self-realization... and need some imaginary supernatural force to ensure your proper behavior, for rear of some kind of eternal supernatural punishment. I dread to think of what your life will be like... and the lives of everyone around... should you come to realize that all of your controlling beliefs are the product of the myths, superstitions, fairy tales and fantastical delusions of an ignorant bunch of Bronze Age fishermen and wandering goat herders.

Cooperation and altruism are inate properties of human existence... a more sophisticated version of the social organization that you can see among pods of orcas, packs of wolves, lion prides and troops of chimpanzees. Moral consensus, moral conscience and mutual empathy are evolved survival traits. These are social constructs... the social lubrication that allows people to exist together. People come away with the misconception that they don't exist, absent religion. The religious puppet masters try to perpetuate that idea, in order to protect their conduits to wealth and power... but that is a canard. This has to do entirely with human nature.

With regard to the behavior of atheists... see what you can make out of this. Here's a list of religions, listed as a percentage of the US federal prison population (1997):

The Federal Bureau of Prisons does have statistics on religious affiliations of inmates. The following are total number of inmates per religion category:

Response %
---------------------------- --------
Catholic    39.164%
Protestant    35.008%
Muslim    7.273%
American Indian    3.222%
Nation    2.320%
Rasta    1.987%
Jewish     1.773%
Church of Christ     1.744%
Pentecostal     1.463%
Moorish     1.426%
Buddhis     1.180%
Jehovah Witness     0.890%
Adventist     0.831%
Orthodox     0.502%
Mormon     0.399%
Scientology     0.254%
ATHEIST     0.209%
Hindu     0.159%
Santeria     0.157%
Sikh     0.019%
Bahai     0.012%
Krishna     0.009%

Hmmm... note that the Judeo-Christian Total works out to 83.761%. Not an unexpected result.

Note that ATHEISTS, being a moderate proportion of the USA population (about 8 - 16%) are disproportionately LESS in the prison populations (0.21%).

Pretty odd result, for a group that has no god-given guiding moral principals, huh?

**************

"An Atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god.  An Atheist knows that heaven is something for which we should work now - here on earth - for all men together to enjoy.  An Atheist thinks that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue, and enjoy it.  An Atheist thinks that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment.  Therefore, he seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god.  An Atheist knows that a hospital should be built instead of a church.  An Atheist knows that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said.  An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death.  He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated.  He wants man to understand and love man.  He wants an ethical way of life.  He knows that we cannot rely on a god nor channel action into prayer nor hope for an end to troubles in the hereafter.  He knows that we are our brother's keeper and keepers of our lives; that we are responsible persons, that the job is here and the time is now."  ~ Madalyn Murray (later O'Hair), preamble to Murray v. Curlett, 27 April 1961

Answer 2

It's not so much that crimes are committed by "people with religious beliefs." It's that "bad things" were done in the name of the church, which had always been an arm of, and inextricably bound to, the government.

That's one of the reasons a strong part of the founding of the US was religious freedom, and the idea that the government and the church were separate entities.

That line is being blurred again, with religion/faith being used as a reason/excuse for any number of terrible things.

Answer 3

For the same reason that the religious right strawman arguments against atheists. In order to survive in this world we need a quantitative form of reason not a subjective...though we must realize that because we can't explain something (i.e. God or the higher force) doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Atheists have to recognize this and the religious right better understand the entire story behind the development, the etimology of their faith and what it truly means

FYI----it was very much Anti-Semitism and + Racial reasons for Hitler's expermination of Jews and other people NEVER FORGET THIS

Answer 4

Straw man implies that atheists assert an arguement that the religious do not make, but assumes they do. The idea that adherents to a divinely inspired moral code break it more often than those who DON'T claim it as divinely inspired seems relevant.

I think you have more of an argument with your fellow Religionists than you have with Atheists. And your statement about Stalin and Mao killing more people than all religious wars combined is just patently false.

Answer 5

Well, if there wasnt religion, there would be a lot more people living on this earth. You said yourself that hitler's killings were not based on religion so that would of happened regardless of religion or not so hitler can be considered unrelated to this conversation. religion, besides the whole hitler/stalin deal, is the #1 killer of man kind on this planet. over the thousands of years of religion, there has been millions of deaths in the name of it. im not blaming christianity only, but every other religion out there. its all a bunch of bs. if jesus, and buddha, and mohammed, and whoever would of known how many people would die because of them, i dont think that they would have wanted to be so influential. i dont see why they had to think that they were so much better than anybody else and say that anyother religion besides theirs is not true. they caused millions of deaths so there is no denying the fact that religion kills. as for atheists, some dont believe the tale of jesus christ and how he walked on water so they just dont want to be a part of that, which is completely fine. if the world didnt have religion, there would be more people on this earth. period, end of discussion.

Answer 6

You are generalized athiests which is never a wise idea. First off, if I argue against religion (specifically christianity). I will ask where are the dinosaurs in the bible, etc etc. I follow a logical progression rather than something like that. As I said, bad idea to lump all non-believers into a single category.

Answer 7

percentage wise, atheists have committed far fewer crimes than religious people. Atheists tend to be more factual based in their thoughts, while theists tend to be more emotional based. And while stalin and mao were responsible for more deaths than Hitler, it was over a longer time period, and did not single out one specific group for torture and death like Hitler and his henchmen did. And the communist deaths were from mismanagement, not deliberation

Answer 8

Atheists are mostly people who've had bad experiences with people they associate with a certain religion. Bad enough that they have a good deal of hate and anger about it. But they want to believe that they are good people; that they are right. So they rationalize what's in their head (hate of a religion) anyway they can. But it isn't rational it's emotional so don't try to understand or reason with them. There is no rhyme or reason to it.

Answer 9

Quit looking for arguments. I'm Christian too, but embarrassed by questions like these from people looking for trouble. Why do you want to pick a fight with an atheist, are you that bored?

Answer 10

Er, shouldn't you have learned what a "strawman argument" is before trying to use the term in a question?

Sigh.

Answer 11

Why ask a question and answer it yourself? Surely the point of a question is to seek help and information from another person. You sir are actually preaching your point of view without any intention of wanting another point of view!