Aren't you trying to wriggle out of what the Bible clearly says about homosexuality?

Question

Myself, not at all. What the Bible says about anything is selective, contradictory and liable to change in interpretation. People do not believe in " what the Bible says". People believe in traditions about what the Bible says.

Judeo-Christian tradition certainly is homophobic but whether the words of Jesus are homophobic is another matter. The various Christian theological traditions are so different from one another that they cannot be identical with the words of Jesus. The believer must decide whether the words of Jesus are more important than Christian traditions. Arguing out of Christian traditions is circular.

Reply to ramall1to: The Bible is intrinsically disordered, it is not anti-gay as some assume, it is anti buggery whether gay or straight...nevertheless it is an antique moral guide and none of us can be sure what is meant by any of it being too far removed in time and too interfered with to make any sense.

Answer 1

What gets me, is how some can so easily state that the OT was over-ruled by the NT, yet reference the OT when the need arises, yet STILL, in the next breath say again that the OT is practically redundant!
It seems that they like to pick and choose which requirements are obsolete and which are not, depending ENTIRELY on their personal preferences! To me, that's hypocrisy.

Answer 2

The church testifies to the sinfulness of homosexuality, not just the bible. Here's what the church says about it:

Chastity and homosexuality


2357
Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.


2358
The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.


2359
Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Answer 3

You are right in what people generally believe about the Bible, and their interpretations do change from time to time. This is known as situational ethics, and it does not wash in good Bible interpretation. God's truth is eternal and unchangeable. The fact that people want to change what God has given us does not change the truth---it merely puts humankind in the position of not knowing which way is up or down. In other words, it leads to confusion. Unqualified preacher in the pulpit, cultists, ignorant educators, the media and politicians are largely responsible for this. The falling standards of our churches and public school are helping to encourage ignorance, not foster intelligence and wisdom. We are falling into the devil's hands, which will make the Antichrist's job a lot easier. Jesus loves you.

Answer 4

Good thought-provoking question.
I agree. In my case (Bible-reading Christian), It is disheartening to see many Christians(at least on answers) believing in traditions about what the Bible say. The religious traditions of men make the Word of God of no effect.

Answer 5

Actually the bible is very clear about homosexuality regardless of what anyone wants to think about it. It states very clearly it is wrong and that those that practice it will not be in Heaven. Show me one place it condones it and I will give you $10,000 cash. Anybody can say it is not clear that wants to do it but if you are honest, it does not condone it but it does condemn it in every passage that it speaks of it. Sorry about that but the truth is truth.

Answer 6

The problem is most people approach the Bible like a novel, to be interepreted and analyzed.

Answer 7

The Bible is vague and self-contradictory. That makes it popular. It allows others to interpret it selectively according to what they want to believe, and push that interpretation on others to gain power.

Answer 8

And when was the last time God came down to edit His galleries?

Answer 9

he said wriggle! hahahahhahahahahaha

Answer 10

What the Bible says about Homosexuality



Contender Ministries

With the schism in the Anglican communion, the Constitutional amendment in the United States to define marriage as between a man and a woman, and in light of various ‘human rights’ laws around the world that vilify those who speak against homosexuality, more Christians are asking what the Christian position towards homosexuality should be. While only a tiny percentage of people are homosexual, the gay lifestyle is becoming mainstream – at least in some circles and in the media. Let’s examine what the Bible says about homosexuality, and clear up a few myths in the process.

First, let’s start with some fundamental groundwork. Some people, uneducated in scripture, are under the mistaken impression that all forms of sexuality are sinful according to the Bible. With this misconception, they readily disregard anything the Bible might say with regards to sexuality, choosing instead to side with their sexual desires. What they don’t understand is that they are completely wrong. Sex is a creation of God, who pronounced all His creation “good!” Sexuality is not sinful. It is a wonderful part of God’s plan.

God put a limit on sex, though. Yes, a limit – only one. There is no long dissertation on the do’s and don’ts of sex. The only caveat to the enjoyment of sex is this: sex is meant to be enjoyed in the context of marriage – not outside of it. Unfortunately, these days we must be specific. Sex is to be enjoyed within the context of a marriage between a man and a woman. That’s it! That’s the limit. Genesis 2:24-25 says, “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.” Hebrew 13:4 says, “Marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.” All sexual sins (i.e. promiscuity, adultery, homosexuality, prostitution, etc.) are sins because they do not conform to the limit of sex being a marital activity. Now of course some of you will point out the list of sexual activity prohibited by the Mosaic laws, but let’s not address those issues of the law from which Paul said we are now free. Instead, let’s stick to those ancient commands that endure eternal. To that end, the above-mentioned single rule is how we are to judge sexual morality.

The men of Sodom and Gomorrah were the first recorded in the Bible to face punishment for their sexual perversion. In Genesis chapter 19, we find two angels that pay a visit to Lot’s home in Sodom. In verse four, we find that “all the men from every part of Sodom” surrounded Lot’s house, and told Lot to bring out his visitors “so that we can have sex with them.” The pro-homosexual revisionist argues that the wickedness of Sodom and Gomorrah was that the residents wanted to commit an act of rape. That the rape would have been homosexual is not an issue, according to their argument. However, Jude 7 indicates that Sodom and Gomorrah’s punishment was due to their sexual perversion. Their sin was not simply one of violence (rape) but of sexual immorality (homosexuality). As further evidence of the sinful nature of homosexuality, Leviticus 18:22, and 20:13 both describe homosexuality as “an abomination.”

Contrary to the opinions of some, the Old Testament is not the only place in the Bible that condemns homosexuality. We previously mentioned Hebrews 13:4, where Paul exhorted us to honor the marriage bed and keep it pure. In Romans 1:26-27 Paul is very specific, “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.” In 1 Corinthians 6:9, Paul wrote, “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.” The Greek word from which the King James Bible gets the word “effeminate” is malakos, which literally means something soft to the touch, but is used as a negative metaphor to refer to a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man. The “abusers of themselves with mankind” are those men who engage in unnatural sexual relations with other men – homosexuals. That is also how the NASB, the NKJV, and the NIV translate that verse. Also in the New Testament is verse 7 from the book of Jude, defining exactly why Sodom and Gomorrah were punished – homosexuality.

Having established that homosexuality is a sin, we must now face that we live in increasingly pro-homosexual societies. The media and the schools have become mouthpieces for the gay subculture, and are working hard to marginalize those of us who take a moral, biblical stance on the issue. School sex education programs based on the curriculum developed by SIECUS champion homosexuality as being normal and healthy, while encouraging teenagers to ignore the values of their parents if their parents feel homosexuality is wrong. “Gay” television shows are popping up on networks like Bravo and on other networks as well.

In many nations, current and existing laws are including slurs against homosexuality in the definition of hate crimes. In fact, some in Canada have found themselves in legal trouble for reading the first chapter of Romans over the airwaves. This is a pattern that is sweeping the Western world, and I predict we’ll see similar legislation in the United States within the next few years. While the Canadian Parliament claims that a religious exemption in their recent hate speech bill will protect speech of a religious nature, in practice Canadians have already been prosecuted by human rights tribunals for things as simple as listing the same Bible verses above in a newspaper advertisement.

Even the church today is not immune to the mainstreaming of immorality. The Anglican Communion, including the Episcopal Church in the United States is suffering a rift because of the appointment of an openly homosexual bishop. This rift is widened because some of its leaders have deemed it appropriate to perform homosexual marriages. The Methodist Church has allowed openly homosexual ministers to retain their positions. Let me make this clear: I do not oppose allowing homosexuals to attend church. In fact, I think that’s where they should be. However, we must not condone sinful immorality by allowing our clergy to practice it openly. Homosexuality is a sin. Homosexuals are unrepentant of their sin. If they were repentant, they would no longer identify themselves as homosexual. Just as no church would allow their minister to engage in an ongoing adulterous affair and retain his position, so we must not allow homosexual ministers to retain their positions of leadership.

Homosexual advocates will contend that homosexuality is natural, and some will point to homosexual activity within some animal species as evidence. However, it’s not hard to figure out that homosexuality is decidedly unnatural. My wife and I used to have a couple of pendant necklaces. Each of us had half of a pendant on our necklace. When we put our two halves together, the zigzag pattern meshed together flawlessly to create a single, whole pendant (which, by the way, bore the words of Genesis 2:24). God made men and women different, both emotionally and physically. Physically, we were created to fit together anatomically much like our pendant. Our parts just match up! Remember the child’s game of matching the round peg into the round hole, the square peg into the square hole, etc.? The homosexual is trying to force two pegs together, in blatant disregard for God’s natural design! The argument above also falls flat on its face when you consider that some animal species also eat their young. I don’t think we can extrapolate that into an acceptable practice for human beings.

These same homosexual advocates will claim that homosexuality is genetic. NOT TRUE! Nobody is ‘born homosexual.’ In 1993, Dean Hamer of the National Cancer Institute claimed to have found a genetic link to homosexuality. Yet in 1999, the results of an intensive study by the University of Western Ontario found that Hamer was in error. The fact is that after all the attempts to show a genetic cause for homosexuality, no such genetic cause has been found. A British psychologist has had enormous success in providing “reorientation” therapy to homosexuals who want to change. This is not a surgery or a medical treatment, but it is effective. How could it be effective if the cause of homosexuality is physical? Well, it couldn’t be. Homosexuality is a choice, not a genetic predisposition.

Also untrue is the label applied to those who don’t approve of homosexuality. “Homophobe” has been applied to anyone speaking negatively of homosexuality or of homosexuals. But in 2002, a study by the University of Arkansas was publicized that showed that term to be inaccurate. While a phobia is a fear, researchers found that those termed “homophobic” exhibited no traces of fear. The study subjects’ reactions ranged from disapproval to disgust, but none showed any fear.

God’s laws were handed down for our benefit. HIV and AIDS, while no longer exclusive to homosexuals, are still much more rampant and spreading more quickly among the gay community (at least in the western nations). Our children are at risk as well. While GLSEN (Gay, Lesbian, Straight Education Network) will tell your seventh-grader during a school assembly that heterosexual men molest more children than homosexual men do, they are not telling the whole story. That statistic is only true because homosexuals make up less than 5% of the population. Statistically though, a homosexual man is 10 to 20 times more likely than a heterosexual man to sexually abuse a minor.

A few “Christians” have hurt the cause of morality by acting out violently and/or hatefully against homosexuals. When Matthew Shepherd was killed for being homosexual,* a Baptist congregation gathered outside the courthouse during his killers’ trial. They held up banners that stated how many days Shepherd had been in hell, and used some disgusting names to describe him. They seemed to be happy that he had been brutally murdered. Hate is not the answer to anything. Every one of us is sinful, yet every one of us is loved by God. Jesus did not celebrate the death of Matthew Shepherd, and neither should we. “Hate the sin, but love the sinner,” is how the saying goes, and that applies to homosexuals as well.

With that said, we must not be afraid to stand up and champion the cause of morality. Some will call us bigots and homophobes for our belief that homosexuality is a sin, but we cannot let name-calling soften our beliefs in God’s moral code. The pro-homosexual movement can only marginalize us if we allow ourselves to be marginalized. There are two ways we can do that: a) we exhibit hate toward homosexuals rather than love, or b) we remain silent. We must proudly champion God’s love toward the homosexual without condoning his or her behavior. Let His love shine through us, and may we all be examples of the morality God desires.

*UPDATE, 11/23/2004: An investigation by ABC's newsmagazine 20/20 has revealed that the murder of Matthew Shepard was not motivated by anti-homosexual violence as once thought.