How can some people claim that 1 Thessalonians does not teach the rapture?

Question

I realize that "rapture" is a term invented by Darby only very recently. However, 1 Thessalonians 4:17 seems to me to be saying that something very much like what Darby called "rapture" will occur.

"Then we who are living, who are left remaining, will be caught up together with them [those who had died] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will be always with the Lord."

How is this verse interpreted by those who do not believe in the rapture?

Thank you.

Answer 1

First of all, look at the entire chapter to get the context. You will see it talks about a trumpet sounding. There is a portion of the bible that talks about the Trumpet judgements which take place in the tribulation.

Secondly, no where in that chapter does that state WHEN in the timeline of the end times that happens. The rapture is to help Christians escape the coming wrath. But it does Not state that it occurs prior to the tribulation or at some point during the tribulation, or even if it occurs just before Armageddon.

Personally, I feel that as Christians, it is very possible that God will not come until later on in the tribulation.

Take a look at the ENTIRE chapter of Daniel Chapter 12. If you read not just the first part, but the entire chapter, it shows that many Christians will go through the end times and those who remain faithful will be rewarded. Here are the last two verses of this chapter:
11 "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

13 "As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance."

To me, that means, be prepared to go through the Tribulation.

Answer 2

Who are the ones that will be 'caught up in the clouds' as stated at 1 Thessalonians 4:17?
Verse 15 explains that they are faithful ones "who are left until the coming of the Lord" that is, they are still living at the time of Christ's coming. Will they ever die? According to Romans 6:3-5 and 1 Corinthians 15:35,36 & 44, they must die before they can gain heavenly life (for flesh & blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God). But there is no need for them to remain in the death state awaiting Christ's return. They will instantly be "caught up" "in the twinkling of an eye" to be with the Lord. So those taken up must die but they do not experience the full effects of death as others do. The second they die, they are raised up and given spiritual bodies. Those who are not chosen to rule with Jesus in heaven as Kings & priests will remain on the earth as subjects of the heavenly Kingdom. Just as Jesus said :" the meek shall inherit the earth."

Answer 3

Does rapture mean, being taken up in "secret"?

I believe in the second coming of Christ. However His coming and the gathering of the saints will not be a secret. Every eye shall see Him.

If you believe the rapture to be in secret, then I disagree with you.

Answer 4

Good Question.


To: chris C

...There is no conflict, it’s probably that you do not understand that there are two “appearings”: two comings of Christ - both with an “R”. The first is the “Rapture”. That's when we hear the words, “come up hither” in Revelation 4:1 and we're caught up in the twinkling of an eye, I Corinthians 15:52. The dead in Christ rise first, then we which are alive and remain are caught up with the dead in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, I Thessalonians 4:16.
And I believe probably the most obvious would be events that happened in the Old Testament that seem like the Rapture. And, we have some in the Old Testament.
Well not actually what takes place at the Rapture, for then we get brand new bodies, to be like the body of Jesus, I John 3:2-3.
However, there were two men in the Old Testament who were snatched up to meet the Lord in the heavenlies. Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him. Now it was a form of the Rapture, but it wasn’t really the Rapture, because he’s on the other side in his old body. It was not changed as he went up. And then in 2 Kings 2:11, Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven, but he’s still there in his body. All the others are there as spirits, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, 2 Corinthians 5:8. And James teaches us that, chapter 2:27, as the body went out, the spirit is dead, because that sprit is with the Lord. So it’s a total heaven, full of spirits, even the angels, except these two bodies, and they come back, and they are the two witnesses of Revelation chapter 11. And in verse 12, after they’ve been killed, because the crowds don’t want to hear their preaching, they are caught up into heaven.
I always remember a child being taught about the " Rapture" in the Catholic schools, but They called it" being caught up into heaven". Why do our churches seldom mention the event?
Catholic school they taught it as “being caught up”. That is I Thessalonians 4:17. You know, someone said you can't find the word “rapture” in the Bible. But you can in the Catholic Bible, the Latin Vulgate by Saint Jerome. When he gets to I Thessalonians 4:17, he uses the word “rapiamore” – it means raptured – where it says, “caught up” in our English versions. Why don't more churches do it? They don't study and they don't know what the Bible says. They don't study the catechism – they don’t study the Word of God. God forgive us for that situation.
He talks about a Pre-tribulation Rapture and the Tribulation is that seven-year period of judgment on earth – Revelation chapters 6 to 18 – because we go up in chapter 4 and it only begins in chapter 6. We call it a pre-tribulation Rapture and the Rapture is I Thessalonians 4 verses 16 to 18, when the dead in Christ rise and the living go up with them to meet the Lord in the air and all in the twinkling of an eye, I Corinthians 15:52.
However, during the seven-year period of Tribulation, the greatest revival in history occurs as 144,000 evangelists swarm the world in Revelation 7 verses 4 to 8, and they are preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom – Matthew 24:14. The King is coming and a multitude like the sands of the sea, Revelation 7:9, is converted and verse 14 says, “They came out of the Great Tribulation and washed their robes, made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Because of it, death comes to those new converts during that seven-year period in Revelation 6:9, 13:50 and Revelation 20 verse 4. Now Christ comes back with His saints, Jude 14, and Daniel 12:2 - the Old Testament Jews are raised and at that point, all those who died during the Tribulation are also raised. I hope that answers your question.

You notice. The 144,00 is Old testament evagelists. This will disappoint the Jehovah Witness'.

All of the Old Testament Believers have to be washed in The Blood of The Lamb. Jesus came to "Fulfill The Law of Moses. Not to change it. Jesus changed nothing, this was prophecied from the very begining.
Those who read the Bible literally, such as Tim LaHaye and Baxter agree that the end is imminent.
everybody is asking, “Is this is so, is this so?” Well, what do you have to say? Let me just go into this first, before you answer that. Paul Maier, he takes a very critical look at the end of the world scenario in the Left Behind series. And “Prophecy feeds fires debate – end-of-world books have an eternal appeal”. And “Different visions on how it all will end.” Well, you know, I just have to say that world “end”, I don't believe the world’s going to end. Neither does Tim Lahaye and all these other men.
I know Dr. Tim Lahaye, Dr. Hal Lindsay, Dr. Dwight Pentecost, Dr. Walvoord, and Dr. Grant Jeffrey. None of them believe that the world will end for at least another thousand years. Christ is coming as the King of kings and Lord of lords, Revelation 19:16, to rule and reign for one thousand years, Revelation 20:4. It is the amillennialist crowd who says there’ll be no millennium who’s preaching that it’s the end and that the end will come. Not these men, you’ve misunderstood them.
Well, doesn't the Bible speak about the end of the world? Yes, Matthew 13:39, 40,49, Matthew 24:3, Matthew 28:20 and Hebrews 9:26, but any Greek Orthodox teacher in their catechism will tell you that is not the end of the world. It is the end of the age of grace before we go into Christ's reign on earth. This world even after a thousand years is never going to end. “The earth abides forever”, Ecclesiastes 1:4. “Yahweh God created the earth, it shall never, never, never be removed”, Psalm 104:5. Jesus said, “The meek shall inherit the earth”, Matthew 5:5. For how long? “the meek inherit the earth forever and forever”, .Psalm 37:29 when Christ sets up his government on earth, “of the increase of his government, there shall be no end”, Isaiah 9:7, and when he sits on David's throne in Luke 1:32, He rules over the house of Jacob, Israel forever and forever and of his kingdom “there shall be no end”.

Answer 5

“Another parable put He forth unto them, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, ‘Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? From whence then hath it tares?’ He said unto them, ‘An enemy hath done this.’ The servants said unto him, ‘Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?’ But he said, ‘Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.’’” (Matthew 13:24 – 29 KJV)

Now that is an interesting story, and it can be a little confusing; fortunately, because the disciples found this story a little confusing they also and asked Jesus to explain if further. Because our God is not a God of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33), Jesus explained what this parable meant.

“Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, ‘Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.’ He answered and said unto them, ‘He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.’” (Matthew 13:36 – 42 KJV)

A closer study of this parable would seem to completely disprove the theory of a secret rapture of the church. Let’s take a look at what Jesus had to say about the time of the end through this parable. There are two groups on the earth represented by the wheat (the good or the church) and the tares (the evil). The workers of the field (probably representing angels) are troubled by the tares that the evil one (the devil) has planted. They ask the farmer (Jesus) if they should gather the weeds now and purify the field (the world). The farmer (Jesus) said that it should not happen that way because some of the wheat may come up with the tares. He then declares, “Let both grow together until the harvest (the end of the world): and in the time of harvest (the end of the world) I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.” I find it hard to be a proponent of a secret rapture for the church when Jesus said that both the good and the evil will grow together until the harvest (the end of the world). How can the church be raptured, leaving the evil on the earth, when Jesus said they will be together until the very end?

There is another issue raised by this parable. Many well intentioned Christians use the story in Matthew 24:40 & 41 and Luke 17:34 – 36 as key proof of a secret rapture for the church, but if we examine this story about the end times with the earlier story Jesus told about the end times in Matthew 13, we get a completely different picture from what most Christians interpret this story to mean. Let’s look at what Jesus said in these verses.

“Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.” (Matthew 24:40 – 42 KJV)

“I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.” (Luke 17:34 – 36 KJV)

Now I do not think that I am wrong in thinking that most Christians interpret these stories to mean that the man taken from the field, the woman that is taken while grinding, and the man taken in his sleep are the ones that belong to the group that is the church and are ruptured. This does not seem to be a plausible explanation however. Jesus gives an order for things to happen back in Matthew 13. “Gather ye together first the tares (the evil), and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat (the good or the church) into my barn.” Jesus clearly says that the evil will be gathered first. If we take this understanding and apply it to Matthew 24 and Luke 17, we get a very different understanding. The ones that are taken are not in the group we want to be in. The ones who are taken are the tares (the evil) that are being gathered to be burned, but the ones that are left are the wheat (the good) that are saved.

There is another metaphor that many well intentioned Christians use to support a secret rapture for the church; I feel that this too is an invalid interpretation of a story.

“But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.” (Matthew 24:43 & 44 KJV)

“And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.” (Luke 12:39 & 40 KJV)

“For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.” (1 Thessalonians 5:2 KJV)

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” (2 Peter 3:10 KJV)

“Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.” (Revelation 16:15 KJV)

Here again, most Christians would attempt to say that this metaphor of a thief in the night is depicting a secret rapture for the church. I believe that most Christians have misinterpreted this too. First, Jesus explains what this metaphor means. He says that the meaning is not that the second coming is a secret but we do not know when it will occur. If we knew what day the Lord was to come, we would get ready the day before it, but since we do not know the day or the hour (Matthew 24:36), we must be ever ready! Just examine what Peter had to say of this metaphor in 2 Peter 3:10; he says that when the Lord comes as a thief,” the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, the elements shall melt with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are therine shall be burned up.” Now I am not sure how all that could be kept a secret from anyone or how people would be able to live on the earth when it has passed away, burned up, and all the elements in it have melted.

Answer 6

THE DEFINITION OF RAPTURE IS- " caught up together -gathered together"...


simply because they are decieved and do not know the meaning of the word rapture so they say the bible says nothing about rapture and that it is a made up event---

Answer 7

Because it doesn't. Show me scriptural support and verses that explain the entire theology of the Rapture. I can't find it. If its there please share it with us.

You may want to check out: http://www.booksamillion.com/ncom/books?id=3558378659090&isbn=1598240277 for a twist to this subject I'm sure you're not aware of.

God Bless

Answer 8

This is one of a few clear statements concerning the second coming in the Bible. I personally feel that the only reasonable argument against it is to suggest Paul's letter and Paul are fallible.

Answer 9

If you believe in that passage then fine, believe in the rapture. But if you don't (like me), then it's subject to debate.

Answer 10

Well if you truly believe in the Bible- you will truly believe in the "rapture". Those who don't- well they don't.