Riddle me this...if we were made by a creator, who created the creator, and who created them, and so on?

Question

I'm torn on this subject. I stand on a line between creation and evolution, often opting for a blend of the two. Its a bit of a paradox for me. I have a hard time believing that we evolved from microorganisms, but then there's this creator question. At some point you have to say that something came from nothing, and its very trying going round and round in this circle. Your thoughts?
Please no nasty comments from you antireligious folks, I consider myself agnostic for the time being, with no formal religion, and I don't need anyone to try to prove anything to me, so keep your nasty comments to yourself please.
All you open-minded folks, please share your thoughts.

Thank you all for your great answers!!

Answer 1

well it is absurd to me that we all evolved from microrganisms....according to (damn i 4got who was that guy) soem scientists nonliving things go under a chemical reaction and then they bcum living....from there they start merging together and evolved to bigger creatures... now that is completely absurd and it can never happen, so it has been proven.
and then again if we are evolved from micro-organisms (saying hypothetically) then y is that not all things are huge? why is that some decided to stay as atoms and single cells...adn some got bigger?
scientists say that the beginning of this world started from teh "Big Bang", if taht is so, what was there b4 teh bang...where did those elements came from....these are some of teh questions that, as fo rnow, do not have any scientific explanation. and this is teh point when ppl admit that, yes perhaps there is a divine power...and that is copntroling rest of the universe,,,,

Answer 2

I submit the following article, hope it clears things up for you:

Who Created God?

by Jonathan Sarfati

This is often asked of Christians. But God by definition is the uncreated creator of the universe, so the question “Who created God?” is illogical, just like “To whom is the bachelor married?”.

So a more sophisticated questioner might ask: “If the universe needs a cause, then why doesn’t God need a cause? And if God doesn’t need a cause, why should the universe need a cause?” In reply, Christians should use the following reasoning:

1. Everything which has a beginning has a cause.1
2. The universe has a beginning.
3. Therefore the universe has a cause.

It’s important to stress the words in bold type. The universe requires a cause because it had a beginning, as will be shown below. God, unlike the universe, had no beginning, so doesn’t need a cause. In addition, Einstein’s general relativity, which has much experimental support, shows that time is linked to matter and space. So time itself would have begun along with matter and space. Since God, by definition, is the Creator of the whole universe, he is the Creator of time. Therefore He is not limited by the time dimension He created, so has no beginning in time. Therefore He doesn’t have a cause.

In contrast, there is good evidence that the universe had a beginning. This can be shown from the Laws of Thermodynamics, the most fundamental laws of the physical sciences.

* 1st Law: The total amount of mass-energy in the universe is constant.
* 2nd Law: The amount of energy available for work is running out, or entropy is increasing to a maximum.

If the total amount of mass-energy is limited, and the amount of usable energy is decreasing, then the universe cannot have existed forever, otherwise it would already have exhausted all usable energy. For example, all radioactive atoms would have decayed, every part of the universe would be the same temperature, and no further work would be possible. So the best solution is that the universe must have been created with a lot of usable energy, and is now running down.2

Now, what if the questioner accepts that the universe had a beginning, but not that it needs a cause? But it is self-evident that things that begin have a cause no-one really denies it in his heart. All science, history and law enforcement would collapse if this law of cause and effect were denied.3 Also, the universe cannot be self-caused nothing can create itself, because that would mean that it existed before it was brought into existence, a logical absurdity.
In Summary

* The universe (including time itself) can be shown to have a beginning.
* It is unreasonable to believe something could begin to exist without a cause.
* The universe therefore requires a cause, just as Genesis 1:1 and Romans 1:20 teach.
* God, as creator of time, is outside of time. Since therefore He has no beginning in time, He has always existed, so doesn’t need a cause.4

See also my more technical version of this article, which answers some objections.


Some side notes:
1. Actually, the word “cause” has several different meanings in philosophy. But in this article, I am referring to the efficient cause, the chief agent causing something to be made. Return to text.
2. Oscillating (yoyo) universe ideas were popularized by atheists like the late Carl Sagan and Isaac Asimov solely to avoid the notion of a beginning, with its implications of a Creator. But the Laws of thermodynamics undercut that argument as each one of the hypothetical cycles would exhaust more and more usable energy. This means every cycle would be larger and longer than the previous one, so looking back in time there would be smaller and smaller cycles. So the multicycle model could have an infinite future, but can only have a finite past. Also, there is far too little mass to stop expansion and allow cycling in the first place, and no known mechanism would allow a bounce back after a hypothetical “big crunch”. See the references in Note 4 for more details. Return to text.
3. Some physicists assert that quantum mechanics violates this cause/effect principle and can produce something for nothing, but this is not so. Theories that the universe is a quantum fluctuation must presuppose that there was something to fluctuate their “quantum vacuum” is lot of matter-antimatter potential not “nothing”. Also, if there is no cause, there is no explanation why this particular universe appeared at a particular time, nor why it was a universe and not, say, a banana or cat which appeared. This universe can’t have any properties to explain its preferential coming into existence, because it wouldn’t have any properties until it actually came into existence. Return to text.
4. More information can be found in William Lane Craig, Apologetics: An Introduction (Chicago: Moody, 1984) and The Existence of God and the Beginning of the Universe; Norman L Geisler, Christian Apologetics (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker, 1976). But beware of the unfortunate (and unnecessary) friendliness towards the unscriptural “big bang” theory. Return to text.

Answer 3

For those who believe in God and the Bible the question is solved-period. The Bible says that God is "eternally existent", that means He always was and will be. The Bible also says that God created the universe out of nothing. This answers both questions-
1. who made God? -no one, he always was.
2. where did He get the stuff to make it-He created it from nothing.

Those who do not believe in God and the Bible have a little more of a problem. First they do not have any kind of Scripture to tell them-so they hypothesize. Beginning with the geologic collumn c. 1830, they assume vast amounts of time with each layer. They assign an index fossil to each layer to date it. There is no standard by which to test these dates. Over time these unconfirmed dates become the standard by which we calibrate radio-metric methods---and viola', we have developed a method of dating in which we can get "consistant ranges " of dates. They can confirm each other-kinda like "he said/she said" type stuff-but its all soooooooo scientifically deceptive. Okay, but where did all the fossils come from? Well, from dinosaurs of course! But where did they come from? Well, from a rock. But where did the rock come from? Well, well you see-billions of years ago all the matter in the universe came together and exploded in what we call the big bang. But where did all the matter come from? We just don't know.
So the bottom line is-it really depends what you believe. Actually the whole world is right where you are-they really don't know. But one thing is for sure. The Bible can not be both-- right and wrong. The two beliefs will not mix-even though many try to do this. If the Bible is correct-evolution can not be true. If evolution is true-then God does not matter.

Answer 4

There has always been a conversation or debate about your question......
You say you have a problem with understanding the evolutionary process, me too. So I thought .This doesn't make sense.I am who I am . An individual..No cloning here...No Cyborg stuff , just me..I am special .There's no one like me and there never will be....
So how can it be that if I wasn't evolved from sludge .that I am the individual that I am ...?

I surrendered ,not without a struggle for years ,to the thought that if I am ME an individual with my own thoughts ...that I had to be created by someone (?) who had the capability of designing me as I am .....

Here we are in agreement about something coming from nothing...Sludge didn't explain it , sorry, guys, monkeys don't do it for me..so .

Am I to deduce that I evolved to be the thought producing,, person that I am ? Is it that I am a product of my environment? maybe , but that doesn't explain away the people before me who ,despite their environs became the people they are......
So...what ? I had to be created by a Supreme Being... I reach that conclusion because I don't accept the alternative that I was a sludge monkey ....
So what does that leave me to believe other than there IS A SUPREME BEING...More powerful, omnipotent, all knowing, (had to be all knowing because if I am an individual so is everyone else ,who could create all of these individuals ? )

My answer was there was and is a GOD .! It is my opinion and I believe it to be true , that God , our word for a creator exists..........

He has all knowledge , truth , wisdom and power.
The creator is.always was , and always will be ..
No one can really explain the perfection of God.or His magnificence....We arent "evolved enough to do so " HEE - Hee

It seems that we are always asking that question huh? May be it's because we are meant to search for God......to search our resources (the bible) for the truth .......Man , there are things that you and I will never know.Secrets of the universe , life and it's problems.,and beauty..
We as a race of people and still can't get it right....I suppose I surrendered to the truth that there is a GOD and I will try with all that I am to Get to Him .Gotta use His instruction book .......and believe and have faith that I will eventually know what the answers to all life's questions are .....
GOD IS , ALWAYS HAS BEEN , AND ALWAYS WILL BE....... He's not a man like some religions profess. He didn't
graduate to being God ...... Believe that and that's the beginning .search forHIM....you know where to look... Ask for Him to come into your life and give you the wisdom and courage to continue to look.......

KING DAVID (BIBLE) WAS SAID TO BE A MAN AFTER GOD'S OWN HEART, HE WAS A MURDERER, AN ADULTERER, AND A HORRIBLE PARENT .AND .WHO KNOWS WHAT ELSE.........BE HE STAYED THE COURSE ..THAT PROVES TO ME THAT I AM WORTH Y TOO..I WILL SPEND THE REST OF MY DAYS SEARCHING FOR HIM..CHECK OUT THE BIBLE , READ WITH AN OPEN MIND.... REMEMBER THE NEW TESTAMENT TOO.. GOD IS MERCIFUL. AND IS MIGHTY .. THERES ROOM IN YOUR MIND AND HEART TO SEARCH FOR THAT TRUTH....GO FOR IT ..WHAT CAN YOU LOOSE? SURELY NOT YOUR PLACE AT THE SLUDGE POND ...... YOU'LL FIND HIM....AND OF COURSE THE MERCIES OF HIS SON JESUS CHRIST....

IN HIS GRIP ALWAYS .... C

Answer 5

this is an excerp of an essay i wrote on religon and science..i hope i get my msg across..

The mountains, the oceans, the hurricanes, the earth, the sun, the galaxy, in short our whole world; Science may have the ability to explain the how it was created and the process involved. Science may prove the existence of stars and other galaxy even though humans have never reach it. The Big Bang Theory, the theory that is the pride and joy of scientific world, may describe the birth of galaxies. However, science can never reach a solid conclusion about what happen in the pass, present and future, there are only principles and theories. Science can never justify what causes the ‘Big Bang’ and why it happens. This is when religion and belief comes in. Science has its limitation, to a certain extent where it cannot explain anymore. This limit can only be explained through faith and belief. And that is why religion and science are said to be two sides of the same coin.

or you can try to read "Sophie's world" by Jostein Gaarder

Answer 6

Is time without beginning? Go back, then again, then again! Just like riddle me this.

However, this is not a riddle, this is reality. A reality that is hard for our "finite" minds to comprehend.

Why did the big bang just start? Yet, it did, and that is reality also.

How did it start? Well you have 2 options. Effects can occur without causes, or effects have causes. Effects without causes are not based in reality. Effects with causes are. Aristotle called it the first cause, immovable mover. Now, many people call it a creator.

How did the creator happen? Well it is like, time has no beginning and space has no end. These are immutable facts that cannot be proven, but are true none the less. We exist and our existence is impossible without a creator. These also are immutable facts that can not be proven, they have to be accepted, since their opposite hypotheses leads to fatal contradictions.

Sorry for the short and summary answer, but that is it in a nutshell.

Answer 7

The question is a good question, but there is an answer for this question......The bible states that God, was not created, nor does has a Creator above him. The bible states that He, (God) has been always there for eternaty and eternaty.....God didn't has a beginning nor an end.....weird right?.....Not really, the thing is that our mind is uncapable of perceiving this type of idea in our way of thinking, because we as humans, we can relate to being born, and that person can do another born person and so on....nonetheless lets consider this situation in a different way of point of view......lets say that our beloved ones that have died, long time ago, didn't know the technology of the computers, cars, cell phone, even planes and then you started telling them about what kind of computer, car, cell phone, even plane you had back then but how could they, relate to that if they didn't got to know what you are talking about....well, is the same thing about God, we cannot relate to God concept about not being created by someone else, unless, we were perfect, yes, perfect as he is, to be able to use our minds 100% to understand that idea.....and another thing is that lets consider the time, do we know when it began, no, but we don't care, because as long as we can keep on living by it, it doesn't matter when it began, right? the same thing is with the air, water, and so on....so with God is the same thing, it doesn't matter, as long as we can keep on living, right?
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Answer 8

Your question regarding the possible origins of the creator is flawed by your severely limited lack of perception. Humans have a difficult time grasping the infinite. We cannot perceive of anything having existed eternally backwards or forwards. Take simple physics for example. We know from simple physics that energy/matter cannot be spontaneously created from nothing nor can it ever be completely destroyed. This would imply that all of the energy/matter that currently exists has ALWAYS existed in some form or another. So...if God exists...could it be possible that God is an eternal being? Not sure but I believe that it is possible.

Answer 9

Evolution answers the question "How the universe came about". There is more to this than the very simplistic "God created it" answer. To answer "HOW" we'd have to deal with PROCESS and since this is a material universe, the answer must deal with OBSERVATION. This is Science.

So where is the position of God in the PROCESS? First, we go back to the very basic nature of God which is the Creator(which means, by definition, the one who creates but himself not created). He is therefore the source of the universe. He is beyond or outside of his creation. There would still be God without the universe.

Science teaches us about the theory of evolution. Evolution is a conclusion of the study of the origin of life in the universe and its development based on the available data and methods that we currently have.

The Bible(specifically Genesis 1 to 2) however, teaches about a creator. But we have to remember that Genesis was not intended to teach science to our primitive ancestors. It was intended to make known that we are all creations of one supreme being, that is, a creator. Otherwise, it should've mentioned particles and chemicals. We should understand that Genesis was not addressed to us, modern-day homo sapiens. You only have to read Genesis to know this fact by its use of very simplistic words, clearly written for a simple brain and by a simple brain.

This is not to say that Genesis is wrong and evolution is right. Its just that they answer different questions. The former answers the "WHO or WHAT" while the latter the "HOW". In fact, science can't prove or disprove the existence of God simply because it can't deal with things outside the universe, that is, what is not material or physical. If you read about the Big Bang, you would know that NOTHING can ever be postulated scientifically BEFORE the event.

The theory of evolution is by no means a finished product. A scientific fact is not absolute by definition but is always tested by time, by new theories arising from new data and methods as our knowledge and technology increase much like the Special and General Theory of Relativity unseated Newton's Gravitational Theory. But as of this time, evolution stands firm amidst rigorous tests and because we have reasonable minds, we accept it as fact---a scientific fact, not an absolute fact but a fact established by every modern knowledge, methods and technology currently at our disposal.

People who believe God created the universe don't have to be offended, much less worried about evolution. God could've created us any way he wanted. If in the end the theory of evolution is right then we have to accept it. God would still be the one who initiated and defined the PROCESS evolution discovered. That would just be equivalent to saying Science has discovered the way nature works as God designed it. All would still be to the glory of God since science is an enterprise of His creation.

Answer 10

I used to be in the same position as you, but I researched a lot. There is a good video online for free, and you don't have to sign up or anything. It's about the beginning of the world, and evolution and it's by a pretty funny scientist. Go to www.drdino.com, click on DOWNLOADS, and click of THE AGE OF THE EARTH. Also, a couple good books I read are God Wrote a Book by James MacDonald. And, The Case for a Creator by Lee Strobel.

What I found out is that no one made God. He has always existed, and it's impossible for us to believe because our minds are extremely limited. God is infinite though, so He can get it, but we can't. I actually read a book titles Who Made God by Ravi Zacharias. That author is extremely brilliant, and gives answers to many questions about the Christianity and other beliefs.

Answer 11

Evolution is a very real thing. It's a theory on minor points only in my opinion. The question of who created the creator? Who cares? You're getting way beyond yourself. Don't mind eff yourself with question that mankind cannot answer.

Creationism is based solely on believing the Bible only. For example, if one wishes to believe deeply in Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, then I guess those eight characters existed along with the wicked witch and a poisoned apple. Get my drift?