Intelligent question for everyone (details)?

Question

Agnostic here, dont want to convert anyone,

So would we all agree, that science by itself is neither moral nor immorral, but it is the use of science by people that can lead to good or to bad.

Example: medicine, research scientists using science come up with cures. A good use of science. Credit goes to people.

Bad examples: late 1800s science teaches about evolution from species to species, - people try and use that science to justify eugenics. White anglo saxon prodestants, who believe black people evolved later than whites and were "genetic criminals" tried to pass laws that made forced sterilization legal. Supreme court even upheld a Virginia Law, SCOTUS has not reversed this law. In this case, its not christianity or science to blame, but the evil hearts of the bigoted people who ABUSED scientific learnings.

So this question - agree or disagree and why - Is it people that abuse religion and science, for evil purposes, and not the fault of religion or science

In the above "bad" example, from my understanding in the book I am reading, it wasn't just Prodestant Christians in America, but that the main players were, but not all.

And of course, the overwhelming majority of people then and now (I HOPE) are not in favor of eugenics and forced sterilization of anyone.

I hope this question makes sense

Answer 1

For once, I agree with you on both science and religion. My reason is very simple: science and religion cannot be to blame since 1) they do not have the free will to act and do evil and 2) neither of them in their definition request that people involved do evil.

I'm not sure the same could be said for organizations whose only reason for being is to secure profit for their shareholders - but nobody seems to care about this.

Answer 2

It depends.

But what you're saying is that the Church of Satan--which is indeed a religion--is not evil in and of itself, just that its followers use it. (Because to "abuse" Satanism would be to have a kind heart and so forth.)

With science, on the other hand, there are probably exceptions too. This is because science is a vast group of postulates, theorems, and relative laws. It is not perfect--it is just as good as it gets for now, until something new and "more true" is discovered. So, since science is human understanding of the natural world, it is possible that human understanding can create bad science. Check out the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, for example, that tries to prove that what the scientist sees depends on what he or she is looking for. For example, an electron will behave one way when one scientist is looking for it to behave that way, but under the same laboratory circumstances, that electron will behave in a whole other way for a different scientist because that scientist is looking to prove something else.

I guess the answer to your question is that *most* things are not absolute, even those things that have been "proven." I mean, relativity is a theory. A damn good one...but no one yet has declared it a stone-cold law.

Another thing I should say is that either a religion is true or it's not. If it's true, people can still misinterpret and pick and choose in order to back up their evil actions with misunderstood religious dogma. But it's true or not. Two religions cannot be the truth.

This is all sort of half-connected thinking I'm giving you here, but your question has large implications that would require a day-long seminar to discuss in full. These are just some things to consider, in light of what you've said above.

That is, what I say here is meant to provoke further thought, not to sum up your entire question with a complete answer.

Answer 3

Good point. Things are what people make them out to be. A person with an evil heart can take something great (like science or religion) and use it to cause harm or do bad. Look at the Crusades for example. Christianity may be a good, like affirming religion but some people use it in a bad way. Same deal with science. It's all about the individual and how they use what they have been taught. Science and/or religion (for the most part) is not to blame - it is the individuals who missuse it.

Answer 4

I must admit, Jim, you do come up with some good questions. And I would agree with the basic premise of your question. Both science and religion are tied to the people that practice them, for good or for ill. Also, both sides of this issue are effected: evil intentions that create bad science/religion and science/ religion being corrupted by evil people (or even just misguided people).

However, it should be mentioned that sometimes bad ideas in either science/religion can take a life of their own, as it were. Take the very prominent example of capitalism from Max Weber's "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism". Here we see that an idea (capitalism) that gets some of its roots in Protestantism (specifically Calvinistic). However, after capitalism gets going, it no longer needs those Calvinistic roots to keep going. It exists almost as its own entity. In a similar fashion, the same could be said for elements of religion or science. If a bad idea gets going in either arena, it may not need evil people to sustain it. Rather, it might cause evil itself due to people feeling helpless against it. So, while the root may have at one point been people, the evil might still exist to some degree without those people.

Answer 5

I'm of the ultra-liberal notion that no idea by itself and at its core is good or bad, whether it be science or religion or fairy tales. Rather, the interpretation of ideas into action really is what causes moral and immoral acts. For example, is "Kill all those who don't believe in the power of Jell-O" an evil or immoral idea? The act of murdering all of those I could not get to submit to Jell-O would be pretty evil, but what if I read it as satire and laughed? Is laughter inherently evil? I think not. So even blatantly wrong information, such as oh, "The Jews are contributing to the fall of Germany" should have a place in our society and should be debated. However, if the action tied to that is genocide on a level never seen before against an innocent populace then it is the genocide that is evil, not the idea.

Answer 6

Science is cut and dry , in my opinion, so I wonder if people can abuse it very often. Either you have scientific proof or you do not.

People, on the other hand abuse religion every day. Twisting scripture to fit their own agenda. Would any one want to be kept alive after being brain dead for 15 years? Not only was the bible written by men but it was translated and then re-translated many times by MEN! The priests that chose which books (letters) to be included in the bible did so over 400 years AFTER Jesus died. They too, had their own agenda. How dare any human tell me what to believe and what to pray or I won't go to heaven! It makes me so angry to hear these religious fanatics saying the most absurd bullshit. How can a telly tubby be gay? IDIOTS! Beware of anyone who wants to tell you what to believe and that only their way is correct.

One more thing, stem cell research. Why is this even in question? Because some religious fanatics think its a person, valuable research is being at the very least hindered, and in some cases stopped altogether. Yet they think in-vitro fertilization is ok. Does that make sense?

Answer 7

For the most part yes. But I still feel the nature of certain religions lends itself to fanaticism and hate far more than others. Buddhism and Taoism, for example, have followers who, on the whole, are not violent or warlike. While the followers of Christianity and Islam seem just the opposite.

It probably has far more to do with the "mob mentality" than the religion (both claim to espouse peace above all), but why isn't this mentality seen as much in other religions?

I honestly don't think science belongs in the same category as theism though. Science is, or is supposed to be, considered unfinished theory. It is set by the testable conclusions and verified by many people working individually. Religion, on the other hand, claims to have the absolute truth about existence and then refuses to acknowledge any other "theory" that may disagree with them.

Answer 8

Science is by it's own stated nature not all knowing, and abuses of what it provides will be inevitable. Some of this will be malicious, other times it will be a simple accident of the information we are missing.

Religion, on the other hand, often claims to be the word of a perfect "creator" and thus should be able to avoid any language that would even allow for abuse. Religions cannot blame abuse on the people (also created) without ultimately pointing at the creator.

Answer 9

Evil and good are in the hearts of the people not in things. Religion and Science are things which can be influenced by the people who use them. Like anything they can be used for the purpose they were intended or they can be used fro evil. There are a lot of people who interpret things through their own eyes and then act out those thoughts saying that "Science/Religion" told me to. Often people want to blame religion for the actions of people as to justify or give reason and cause to what they do.

Answer 10

It is true that people abuse religion and science for their own purposes. But religion and science are created by people (don't see any other animal interested in either), so it may be pointless to distinguish between religion/science and the people who abuse it. No one has started a war in the name of science, but many cruel experiments have been conducted (both on animals and people) - both show the human race at its best and its worst.