Sorry for beating a dead horse but...?

Question

Okay, fine, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume god lets us sin in order give us free will. The arguement doesn't work at some level, but it's subject to interpretation, and that's not what this question is about. This question is about the following:

Why is something like HELL needed, at all? Couldn't god give humanity the choice to love him or, say, NOT love him, rather than love him or, as Christianity states, suffer endless pain? The issue can easily be solved by saying god isn't omnipotent (or by saying that he's a jerk). And arguements can be avoided entirely using "Divine logic; your mind can't comprehend his divine plan." That's a rational answer, but it also makes further arguements pointless. So, assuming the "Divine logic" idea doesn't work...

What is the functional purpose of hell? A better than neutral deity with omnipotence would remove it if it causes more evil than good. What good does hell cause that couldn't be created with less soulnumbing pain?

And if you agree with me and think there isn't a hell, or hell is a metaphor, or something like that, that's just fine too. I don't believe in hell, I just question the logic behind those that do. Not in an attempt to convert them (though that'd be nice; everyone likes to feel important) but more as a thought experiment (I'm sorry, I just find those to be entertaining).

Thanks for the support athiests/agnostics/people who dislike the concept of hell, but I'm really more interested in an arguement than I am people who agree with me. Controversy for the win. FOR THE WIN!

Thanks for the offer Mr. Mister, but I don't generally accept food from strangers and even if I did, I don't really like snow cones... then again, I do kinda like grape...

Lexicon: There is a logical consequence that if not everyone can get into heaven, than they will either cease to be located anywhere, or they will be located out of heaven. There is no logical necessity that hell is eternal punishment. There is no logical necessity that hell is anything OTHER than simply not being heaven (it could be earth, technically, but that's a reincarnation arguement of some sort). There's no logical reason why the universe has to be balanced between god and not-god, good and evil, or pain and suffering. However, I will give you this: If heaven is eternal infinite paradise, then hell could be SEEN as eternal torment by comparison, simply due to the infinite nature of "good" within heaven.

I'm more than willing to accept that definition of hell: "Not as good as heaven"

Answer 1

As a christian, i would like an opportunity to try and answer this in a way that makes some sort of sense, and i promise i wont give you the normal rhetoric that you here on this sight from the fundamentalists. the christian concept of hell is something out of dantes inferno..and they have been taught it for so long most of them believe it...there is no hell that is going to punish you for ever and ever for what you have done here-- hell is the total seperation from God...not some fiery pit (at least not for us) ..satan and his group maybe..God is omnipotent..he made us mortal from the dust of the ground on purpose..so we can be destroyed..we are not eternally damned like satan (who is immortal) to be wicked (even if we choose to be) forever. we can be destroyed just like we never existed and even the memory of us taken away..lets just say that when its all said and done--we find out that there really is a God ...and we now know the truth.. but we still (through free will) choose not to follow Him, but choose to be evil or wicked... God in HIs mercy... will destroy us and the very remembrance of us.... no fiery pit of suffering for eternity...we will be seperated ... just like we never existed -- that my friend is hell...no torment, no pain..just plain and simple non existance ...wouldnt that make more sense than some fiery torment forever.. i mean with the exception of maybe a few like hitler or stalin what could u do in ur meager 70-80 year existance --to warrant an eternal punishment ...God is love-- and He is merciful...He wants all of us to come to Him willingly and I believe when its all said and done..most of us will-- but there are those that wont..just like Satan and his bunch ... and they will have to go ... simple as that

Answer 2

The problem I see is that God has not given us the resources to always do good or counter the bad. He makes people with rational minds and then doesn't give a rational reason to believe in him. He makes people starve, but doesn't give anyone the ability to feed everyone on the planet. He lets people do whatever bad things they want, but doesn't give the good people the weapons they need to fight them. He gives free will so that people can choose to be bad if they want, but what about the innocent victims in that scenario?

Anyway, I think it just sounded good. You know, you're going to burn, burn in hell! Fire and brimstone, eternal pain, nice and powerful.

Besides, I think there really are some monsters out there who need to be locked up in a burning lake of evil death for-e-ver.

Answer 3

Hell existed before the heavens and the earth. We are only told about the creation of our heavens and earth.

How would I know this? Because in the story of Adam and Eve, in the very early part of their existence, the devil paid them a visit or two. He is described as quite cunning and convincing, so it wasn't awfully difficult to create inside Eve a desire to have something she was told not to touch or eat.

Anyway back to my point. If the devil had already fallen, and by his name change, we can see that it had already happened, then hell existed, for hell was created as Satens "new home".

Now , if you want to really exercize some imagination here. Remember the story of Job. God gave Saten almost free reign to torture Job, all but Kill him. Saten believed he could torture Job enough for Job to cry out and curse God. ( not swearing, but denying and regretting ever believing in him).

So using this logic and our imagination. We can imagine that we were created by God as part of Satens punishment. Giving Saten the false impression that he could one up God and get more soals to fall from Grace and thereby proving that he was better than God, therefore worthy of replacing or even ruling over God (which is biblically what Satan believes he is)

So, we are part of the "whole picture" and because God has let us in on the final outcome (GOD wins) why wouldn't we choose to alighn ourselves with the winner and ultimate being (after all, Saten is also a creation of Gods, who forgot that he was just that , a creation of Gods.

Anyway, the human soals who deny God as their creator and King, as per the rules of our creation, will reside for eternity apart from God. That is the true hell. There will be much knashing of teeth and crying, but even with this, all that are there will know why they are there and the crying and the knashing of teeth will be because they didn't do the right thing while they were given the opportunity to do so.

Answer 4

I think that's a fair question, in fact it's one I've asked God myself. I think about people who have led a life not really being evil or anything, but are going to hell because they decided, for one reason or another, they're not going to accept Jesus. I asked God, why send them to hell, why not just have them cease to exist?

I didn't get an answer on this by the way.

I was thinking about people like Hitler....etc., I wouldn't mind so much these people going to hell! But I just have to believe that God is perfect and His choices are for His reasons, not for me to understand necessarily. And I do believe that about Him, even when I don't understand certain things.

Answer 5

I would say the concept of hell is to have an enternal place for the souls of people who commited grave sins, but chose not to seek reconcilliation with their God.

The souls of those who never sinned, or those who sinned and reconciled, would be with their God (heaven.)

Understanding right from wrong, especially regading grave (mortal) sins, and reconcilliation (admitting wrong and seeking forgiveness) are powerful concepts. A great deal of humanity doesn't have the capacity to offer forgiveness. In many religions, God is the entity that will always forgive - but only if asked first.

I think that's a simple explanation for the concept.

Answer 6

I believe hell started when a powerful angel turned on God, and now it's an eternal battle of who is more powerful. He didn't create a hell to banish us to, it's just where our soul goes if you're not accepted into heaven.

It's written that you can't go into heaven if you don't believe/love/accept God, and so your soul goes to the other choice... hell.

God is seen as the savior, and through him, you can avoid hell.

These are not my beliefs, I am actually not religious, but this is what I picked up on during my past forced sunday school masses.

Answer 7

Well first of all if you dont believe in God, not a god but the god of Israel, then its hard for you to believe in hell. The reason hell was created was for satan and his angel, its in Gods Word, because they chose sin and the reason God punishes everyone ,who dies without faith in His death burial and resurection, in hell is because of sin. We know God hates sin but you and i dont know to the extent of how He hates sin. He is a loving and forgiving but He hates our sin and if we reject His gift of salvation then He cant clense us from sin and we have to be seperated from Him for eternity in Hell. Why couldnt He just make us to cease to exist, nobody knows but He wrote the rules so either you agtee or you dont, thats the only 2 choices we have. Our true selves, our spirits, are eternal and cant be destroyed, thats what will be burning in Hell forever. God is loving and forgiving but he also is just and righteous and holy. God doesnt look at sin the same way we do. He sees it all as sin no matter what we do and because He sent His Son to die for our sin, this is why He is going to hate it all. A person who had a fight with cancer and it goes into remission, will usually do all they can to warn others or raise money or whatever they can to stop this disease. To Christ sin is a disease, its not the name of it like lying or murder or adultery, its sin.

Answer 8

I think the source of your misunderstanding is the notion that there is some sort of "construct" out there, in which God "employs" Hell for some means - i.e. to torture sinners, or whatever. This is a flawed notion and necessarily leads to an antagonistic approach to God, since it places humanity in opposition to Him.

The truth of the matter is that God IS - and all of creation is in relation to Him. As St. Paul describes in one of his letters, quoting from an ancient Greek poet: "in him we live and move and have our being." So all creation is in God and in relation to Him. That being the case, when God reveals Himself fully (at the end of time as we know it), every living being and all of creation will be confronted with Him and with His uncreated glory. This light of His presence - what the ancient Orthodox Fathers call the "uncreated light", which is synonymous with God's "grace", and which is the uncreated energies of God - will be heaven and Life - an all-consuming love - to those who love God and turn to Him in a relationship of love. However to those who cannot accept Him, because their own egoism and state of sin will not allow for it, it will be an all-consuming and burning fire.

The point is, these are not "constructs". Heaven and Hell are not created things that God uses as He wills to either reward or punish people. They are conditions of the human person in relation to God. They are our reaction to His presence and all-encompassing embrace. If we love Him, we will experience it as a love-embrace. If we hate Him, we will experience the same love-embrace as an unquenchable Hell.

So now, you tell me what the "functional purpose" of Hell is. There is none. It is not a tool - it is a state of being. "It ain't why, why, why - it just is."

Answer 9

I don't think Christians really believe in an omnipotent God. They think they do, but the ramifications of true omnipotence and true omnibenevolence mean that the world really couldn't exist as it does.

It's just a semantic difference, of course, but I think it answers your question - the Christians in question don't really concieve of God as being either able or willing to dispense with Hell, because he is either unwilling or unable to see humanity as worthwhile unless they take their own risks, without a safety net.

Answer 10

Is there a CONSCIOUS connection....hell....beating a DEAD horse....goats on the left go to hell...sheep on the right go to heaven...where do dead horses go...will trigger be in heaven?...four horsemen of the apocalypse....DEAD horses....beating a dead horse...must...get...10 points...or at least 2.

Heaven and Hell may be the same place, even though they are, paradoxically, separated by an uncrossable chasm, in that those who are in heaven can't communicate with those who are in hell.

The kind of person YOU were will determine how you perceive the place where you are. Heaven is the Place God is. The Bible describes God as a consuming fire, and it also describes Hell as a place of consuming fire. Love is also described in terms of fire in the Bible, in the Canticles of Solomon:
chapter 8:6 Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.

To be wrapped up and purified, in the flames of God's love, will be ecstasy for those who love God. For those who hate God, the touch of His fire will be hell. Will it be Jesus' "Depart from me for I never knew ye!" or their own disgust that will hurl them into the outer darkness, where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth"?

All this is just surmising. All I really know about hell can be summed up in the word's of the laconic Calvin Coolidge: "you don't have to go there."

Addition: The Bible describes "robes of righteousness" as part of the free gift of salvation. Maybe by refusing to wear them, a person is unable to withstand God's fire and glory, who He IS, the way a person wearing those "robes of righteousness" would be.

Sorry to bring metaphorical language into it, but there are no natural earthly words or experiences that correspond directly to the after-death experience, so metaphors are the next best thing. "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." 1 cor 2:9 which is quoted from the book of Isaiah.