i've just had a revelation....?

Question

i just understood why it is that something in me has always rebelled against christianity, even as i went to sunday school and went to mass every sunday...
christianity operates on the principle that all people are fundamentally bad, wrotten apples who need to be miraculosly restored to their red shiny superego so that god can stand their presence....
i believe that all people are fundamentally good, though some are spoiled beyond recovery by their environment, most are just decent people trying to get on with life. sometimes they'll get bitten by a bird or an insect and they won't look so pretty, but they'll heal and they'll be perfectly good, delicious apples in the end.

i guess this isn't really a question, but i wondered how many people feel the same way? and for those who don't... why don't you?

please don't preach at me, i'm looking for YOUR own thoughts, not whole chapters out of the bible, i can look in there myself if i want to.

i just wanted to add that i'm not a naive 14 year old. i'm 28 and have had by no means a sheltered life - i've seen a lot of the best and the worst that people have to offer. i could literally tell you stories that would make cruella devil jealous.
i still believe people are basically and by nature good and decent, though more and more are being preverted by their environment. chalk it up to faith if you will, but not to lack of experience.

Also, i am an atheist, and have been all my adult life.

Lexicon:
i appreciate your answer and hope you check back here to read this

First... you cannot hold it against people that they are not as perfect as god. that would be like grading a good 3rd grade paper with an F because the kid does not write like Dickens. if this is your fair and loving god, i don't respect him and want no part of him.

Second... as i understood those lessons is sunday school, we don't have to try to make god like us, he is supposed to love us all, despite our imperfections.

Answer 1

The Christianity you described is only one view of Christianity, which happens to prevail in the Western world because it is the legacy of Roman Catholicism and its Protestant off-shoots. However there is a whole other world of Christianity in the Eastern tradition - namely the Eastern Orthodox Christian faith - which is the original Christian faith of the Apostles, and which does not share the principles you described.

The Eastern Orthodox Christian faith understands that God is compassionate and long-suffering, loving and merciful, and wants to do everything possible to restore human beings to their rightful place - as His children, in Paradise - a place from which they were cruelly drawn away by the common enemy of mankind, the devil.

Your view that people are "fundamentally good" is correct, according to Eastern Orthodox Christianity, because God created man as "good" - in His image and with the potential to achieve His likeness. However people have been born into a fallen world full of sin, in which it is very hard to achieve the likeness of God - just as it is hard to go into the infectious disease ward of a hospital and not come out sick. That is why God is the Physician of our souls and bodies - and that is what Orthodox Christianity is all about - the therapy and healing of souls, which is accomplished through our purification, illumination and sanctification in Jesus Christ.

This is a completely different paradigm from the Roman Catholic guilt complex you probably were raised with - in which human kind is fundamentally guilty and can never really be clean again.

What a shame that the true Christian faith has been so distorted, and that so many people have been turned off to it because of a lie - that is, because they are told it is something very different from what it really is.

May our loving God and Saviour Jesus Christ continue to have mercy on us and all of His creation, and may He show you the path that you are looking for.

Answer 2

I'm glad you are searching
I went through the same thought process as you are now.
I wanted to think people were inherently good, but unfortunately have reached the conclusion that it is not so. Everyone goes through this stage. but I'll tell you the same thing I told my sister when we had this same discussion several years ago....
her comment was similar to yours, to which I replied, "All you have to do is witness a temper tantrum from an 18 month old - or experience a lie of denial from a 4 year old or have one of your children scream 'I hate you' because you denied them an ice cream cone before supper, and you will know without a doubt that people are not born inherently good."
I agree that most people are decent - simply striving to live their lives by the law of the land and managing for the most part.... however no-one is blameless - no one has never thought of stealing something, been rude to someone, lied, cheated or manipulated to get their own way - it simply hasn't happened and never will.
The fact of the matter is if you have ever even had the thought (and that my dear would be a person who is literally one in a billion) you are not, by definition INHERENTLY good.
Actually, Christianity does not operate under the principle you describe. it's not that God can't stand us because we are rotten - it's that he loves us so much and he knows sin will kill us, so he sent his son to cleanse us (if we let him) so that we can be one with him again.
and he certainly doesn't want to restore any red shiny superego - he wants us to be humble and that includes turning from our sinful nature and striving to be good.

Answer 3

Well gwenwifar, I pretty much agree. I've always disliked that attitude, as well, though it's not the *only* reason I don't call myself a Christian (or a follower of any other religion). It always seemed rather arrogant, to me, or a good ploy for the church to get new sheep... so they will be saved and have a chance for life everlasting.

I personally align myself more with the bumpersticker, "Born OK the first time." :-)

I go back and forth on whether I think people are fundamentally good or bad. But I lean toward the good side, myself. We are not *born* bad, as some religious dogma would have us believe; our upbringing is largely responsible for making us so.

In any case, I do not feel that religion always saves bad people and makes them good -- quite the opposite in many cases. Too often, it turns them into self-righteous bigots with little tolerance and a mind closed to reason, to science, and to other religions.

Answer 4

That is to say, people are born with the knowledge of bad and need to be "restored" to good.
I disagree to say that people are born "not knowing good from bad." They are not instinctively bad but they do not know better. You can go to sunday school all you want but until you've had an experience/or seen others where you know what you've been doing is wrong, you will not change. That is life for you; you are always learning.

That is not to say the bible is right; im agnostic about God and religion but the basic principles are there; you can hear and read it all but you will not truly understsand until you've seen it happen to other people or yourself.

Answer 5

Watch CNN for a week or two if you want a true barometer of man's inhumanity to man. You are obviously living in (whether you know it or not) a predominately Christian culture. We are unlike any nation on earth. Take God out of the equation here and in a few short years you and I would endure unspeakable horrors at the hand of man.

Your rebellion is totally natural and God has been aware of our rebellious nature since Adam and Eve. That's why He created a bridge back to Him with a hammer, three nails, and a cross.

When you have learned a little more about the world around you, you will be so very grateful for the knowledge and insight you learned in church. You won't even remember this post, but you will understand it someday.

Answer 6

I pretty much agree with that. I also feel that Christianity (as well as many religions today) are based on misogyny. I am not really a feminist (in the true sense of the word), but it seems very unfair that women are portrayed in the bible as naturally doomed, even more so then men, based on a story that seems more mythical than realistic.
I do believe that the majority of people on this earth are basically good, in that they just want to live and let live. Sadly, there are many forces that abound that seem preoccupied with preventing a simple life.

Answer 7

You have good philosophy. Also if everyone sins by nature ( meaning you have no choice in the matter, everyone does it ) Then why should we have to feel guilty about it, and why would God have to send his only son to die for our sins which he knew everyone would commit when he made us. Guess he just didn't care about his son, lol.

Answer 8

I don't feel the same way...

First... you misunderstand... people are bad in comparison to God... in comparison to other people yes you are inherently good... but God judges us in comparison to himself not other people... and God is perfect so that is why we need a Savior because we can not attain perfection on our own.

Second... God isn't impressed with us when we do "good" because all our good works pail in comparison to him whether we are Christian or not. We can't do anything to make God like us... God can stand to have us in his presence only when we are covered by the blood of Christ

Answer 9

Everyone is born in sin that doesn't mean they're necessary bad it just means that they need to repent and get their lives right with God

Answer 10

i do not believe all the religious things, well i do and i dont, i try to encorporate some things in my own philosophy of life and urs is definitly something thats lightening up a bulb in my mind, i like it and i agree