Question for Atheists and Agnostics?

Question

Theists, I respect you, please hit the back button on your browser.


Ok, Atheists and Agnostics, someone in my last question brought up a good point, can we expect an intelligent answer from someone who believes there is a man in the sky with a long white beard and a grey robe and sandals and he throws fireballs at Earth. Obviously we can expect them to make change at the store, but when talking to them about God, is it almost like going to a mental hospital and talking to someone who got probbed by a UFO. Can we ever expect any answer about God from a religious person, other than what one of their books says, or something that they are making up. Its like talking to someone who worships Zeus, would we ever get anything out of a Zeus worshipper besides Zeus impregnanted that lady magically and he threw a lightning bolt when he was mad at us and he took away our wheat crop and we starved.

Atheists and agnostics, if that is the case, why do we ask questions in this section?

Answer 1

To see what arguments there are-learn what's being said in the Xian world. See what rumors are going around.
I also see question/answers that I learn from. Info. I wasn't aware of. There is always hope that you'll post something to wake someone up...help them to 'see the light' :-)
I'm learning a lot. I wasn't that aware of how some Xians will take a very reasonable question/answer and completely disregard it. Saying something like it's been 'taken out of context'. Very eye-opening.

Answer 2

I have met Christians and other religious believers who have been able to think about belief and the supernatural. It is of course difficult to maintain belief when you've given these things serious consideration, but there are some people who do manage it.

Now, just because it does happen occasionally doesn't mean that it's likely to happen, and I can't say that I've seen it at all here on Yahoo! Answers. So why do you ask questions in this section? I've never asked a question here, because I don't see any sign that I'd get any useful information. But you do ask 'em, so I guess it's up to you to answer why, right?

Answer 3

I actually ask relatively few questions.. I find that difficult. I read a lot more answers than I actually answer also. The questions I do pose tend to be more spiritual than downright religious in nature.

I don't care what someone wants to believe. If they feel the need for a big guy in the sky who am I to tell them they are wrong: I'm far from perfect. I'm here because I'm interested in society and people and what makes them tick. What other section aside from govt and politics could you really see that from.

Answer 4

There are some subtleties at work here that seem to be escaping most people. They have to do with the nature of 'belief'.

A rational person might say "I believe in the Big Bang." A religious person might say "I believe in creation, as described in Genesis." But these statements are not even remotely similar, with respect to what is meant by the word 'believe'.

For the rational person, the statement of 'belief' in the Big Bang means that they understand that the concept provides a scientifically and mathematically consistent explanation, congruent with the evidence, which accounts for the evolution of the universe from a fraction of a second after the initiating event, up until the present. When the 'inflationary model' came to the fore, rational people said "Well, good... that clears up a few questions and makes things even more coherent." NOBODY threw up their arms and wailed "Oh, no... oh, no... ain't so... ain't so... the Big Bang is the inerrant truth... not this ridiculous, atheistic 'inflationary' model."

See... when we say "I believe in the Big Bang", we don't really mean the same thing as the religious person means when he says "I believe in creation, as described in Genesis," or "I believe in God." Our 'belief' in the Big Bang (or anything else) isn't really a 'belief'... it is more properly a 'paradigm'... a useful way of looking at something, or thinking about something. If additional information is uncovered that adds to the conceptual model, that is a good thing... not a disaster. If part of the conceptual model is discovered to be incorrect, and must be tossed in the trash and replaced with something completely different... that is also a good thing... not the end of the world as we know it. And often, no matter how highly confident we may be of the accuracy or completeness of a particular paradigm, we may have reason to apply a DIFFERENT paradigm to the same thing; for example, we might want to contemplate the potential implications of a major change in a physics theory from the perspective of the Tao, the Gaia hypothesis, or ecological homeostasis. We KNOW that all theories are approximations... and that is OK. We KNOW that we don't know all the answers... and that is OK. There is nothing wrong with saying "We don't know... yet; but we're working on it."

But these modes of thinking, perceiving, contemplating and understanding are utterly alien to the 'religious' mind. For the religious mind, a 'belief' is not a paradigm... not a useful way of thinking about something... it is an internalized conviction that one knows the absolute 'truth' pertaining to some aspect of existence and/or fundamental reality. 'Beliefs' are a key component filter of the religious person's 'self-description'... a part of what DEFINES them as a person... the very thing that creates their world-view... their 'subjective reality'. Any attack on one of these internalized 'beliefs' is interpreted as a vital threat... an attack upon the 'self-description'... and attack on their subjective reality.

And here is the key difference: When there is a change in one of the paradigms dealing with a scientific concept, or a new insight into the workings of the universe, it constitutes an interesting new piece of knowledge and understanding. However, if some new piece of information (a feature of the universe, for example) seems to threaten a tenet of Christianity, everybody goes to battle stations, goes into 'damage control' mode... for fear that the whole edifice will come crashing down. And, ultimately, it will.

So, when a fundie disparages evolution, for example, it really has nothing to do with a genuine, intellectual dispute regarding scientific details... they are generally scientifically illiterate, anyway. Any 'scientific' arguments that they present are inevitably not even understood... they are just lifted from the pre-packaged lies and misrepresentations that are found on dozens of 'Liars for Jesus' (LFJ) web sites, and parroted. They are in a battle. They are trying to sink science before science sinks them. They are desperate... and science is (mostly, and unfortunately) oblivious to the fact that they are even in a fight, and that somebody is trying to sink them. They are just blithely bopping along, doing what science does... figuring out how nature works.

No... none of this has anything to do with a mere disagreement pertaining to evidence and understanding. It has to do with minds that deal with fundamental issues in an entirely different way. It has to do with a flexible, open-minded, intellectually honest curiosity about the universe contending with a rigid, unyielding world-view that depends from a certainty that their delusional faith-based 'beliefs' represent the absolute 'truth' of reality.

We might as well be talking to an alien species, from a distant planet.

When the religious enter a forum like this one, they are (generally) NOT seeking new information which might allow them to QUESTION their beliefs more effectively, or might put their beliefs at risk... they are seeking VALIDATION... of their beliefs, and hence, their self-description.

Answer 5

Hm

I may actually be at a loss for words.

I saw a post earlier from a woman asking why Christians can't understany hypothetical questions. It's because they refuse to see anyone else's point of view other than their own.

Why DO we bother trying to reason with them?

Shear boredom perhaps?

Maybe we hope we can have an intelligent conversation with those who have different beliefs than we do.

Personally I just enjoy hearing the opinions of others and seeing how other people think. I also enjoy reading questions and answers from people (such as yourself) who share my beliefs.

Answer 6

the FUndies are a lost cause, they're too stubborn and unwilling to bend on anything, however, there's the more progressive thinkers that are willing to consider what we have to say. If we all continue to make good points supported by evidence and logic, eventually over the long run our ideas will seep in and have some effect. But no one will ever turn based on a single question or answer.

Answer 7

Some people come here thoughtfully trying to pick a stance. I come here to present evidence and rational that might help them. My questions are meant as a means for these people to strip away dogma and get to their central experience and reason. If one person can be kept from blind faith (although I'm not sure there's any other kind) it's worth not leaving this place to the fearful, life sucking internal spiral of unconsidered theology. I guess in a strange way I am also trying to save souls.(ps-I use the term soul to refer to our mental aspect, as the ancient Greeks did.)

Answer 8

The best answer I can come up with is curiosity. Although I think some ask questions here in the hopes that they can "turn" a "believer" but in doing so they become the fundamentalist that they love to hate and do nothing more than add to the drama and stereotype.

Answer 9

Ummm, for entertainment, interaction and to rock the already quickly sinking boat of organized religion. Can't you feel the impending death throes?

But most importantly for me, is to keep a finger on the pulse of the religious community. We are seeing a scary revival of xtian fundamentalism in america and I'm watching them like a hawk. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. They will try to do as much damage as they can while they have the chance and I'm not about to let my rights get taken away. I also like to see the xtians fight among themselves over matters of theology. Keep 'em divided.

Answer 10

I don't ask questions. So far I've only answered them. I feel that there are at least a few questions worth answering...like why we are the way we are, say. Religious people tend to have some very deeply entrenched prejeduces, and someone has to stand up to them.