If God knows your destiny, then is there really free choice?

Answer 1

'Omniscience' is logically incompatible with 'free will'. 'Omniscience', all by itself, is sufficient to put the lid on 'free will'; omnipresence and omnipotence are irrelevant. It is not necessary for god to intervene in order to negate 'free will' as a possibility. Omniscience negates free will all by itself.

If we really DO have 'free will', then an omniscient god is logically excluded. The logical fallacy lies in the premise that if god is omniscient, all outcomes are already known to god... everything that you think, decide and do... and everything that you WILL think, decide, and do.

For an omniscient being, all of existence over all of time is laid out as a tapestry before him... past, present and future, down to the smallest detail of material, of thought and of deed, and all is constantly in his awareness. There is no past, present and future from that perspective... there is only an eternal 'now'.

If that is the case, since god already knows everything that will happen, then everything is already decided... and as we go along through life, we are merely doing what has already been seen by god. Since god knows and sees everything that will happen, NOTHING that we think or do can be contrary to what god already sees and knows. We might THINK we have free will... but since we are merely acting out what god already sees and knows, this can be no more than an ILLUSION of free will.

Put another way, if you come to a point of decision, you have no choice but to take the path that god already knows you will take... there is no other option. That works all the way down the path of cause-and-effect... and, along the way, it even casts doubt on the validity of the concept of cause and effect. I don't want to get into that, though... it makes my hair hurt.

So, imagine that since before time began, since before the universe was created, god has 'known' that you would come to a point of decision at some spatial and temporal coordinate, and that faced with the possible paths A and B, you would take path A.

Now, during the course of your life, you arrive at that spatial and temporal coordinate where this choice exists. You evaluate the potential outcomes, and you have it in your head that you have 'free will', and thus, you are free to choose between path A and path B. However, since god is 'omniscient', and god 'knows' that you will take path 'A', then path B IS NOT an option... it IS NOT a matter of choice... it is a 'NECESSITY'. OF NECESSITY, you WILL take path A. Not 'must'... not 'can'... WILL take path A. You DO NOT have a choice. Path B is NOT an option... it is not even a POSSIBILITY. The best that you can achieve is the ILLUSION that you are free to choose.

So, either god is omniscient OR we have free will. It is QUITE IMPOSSIBLE for BOTH of these conditions to coexist.

The only way out of this logical dilemma is to limit god's power; i.e., start taking away things that god can see and know, until we get to a point where free will BECOMES a possibility. But when we start doing that, then he ceases to be omniscient... and thus ceases to be a 'supreme being'.

So... free will is an impossibility concomitant with an omniscient diety. The following sums up the possibilities:

1. There is no omniscient diety... therefore, the whole argument is stupid and irrelevant.

2. IF we possess 'free will' AND god exists, THEN, of necessity, it is IMPOSSIBLE that god is omniscient. (This does not preclude the notion of 'god'... it just means that he can't be as 'supreme' as one might think he is... or wish him to be.) You are (logically) obliged to acknowledge that god CAN NOT BE all knowing... and since omniscience is one of the things that makes god 'all powerful', then this means that god CAN NOT BE omnipotent, either.

3. IF god exists AND god is omniscient THEN, OF NECESSITY, it is IMPOSSIBLE that that we have free will, and you are (metaphorically speaking) nothing more than a piece on god's eternal game board; and, thus, "... man is not responsible for his actions."

Personally, I vote for number 1. You can pick any one you want... but YOU MUST PICK ONE, because there are NO OTHER possible outcomes... NO OTHER logically valid choices.

It is unfortunate (for the Abrahamic death cults of desert monotheism) that the concepts of god were solidified as dogma a few thousand years before the philosophical discipline of 'logic' was dreamed up by the Greeks. Those that concocted the religion did not have access to the intellectual tools that would have enabled them to realize that they had 'screwed the pooch' with respect to assigning god's impossible attributes. It wasn't until the 4th century that this logical impossibility garnered serious attention, and churchmen got their theological 'dancin' shoes' on, trying to weasel their way out of the logical dilemma.

They did not succeed, and this issue continues to be debated even 'til this day. This logical dilemma (and the resulting 'cognitive dissonance') was a key element in some of the various 'heresies' that were spawned in the early days of Christianity.

However, the simple observation that these impossible beliefs still exist shows that this does not seem to have been a very big hindrance, under the simple expediency that "There is no problem so big that we cannot ignore it, until it will go away." Too bad for them, though... it DOESN'T go away.

Corporate religion is helped along by the fact that most 'believers' do not employ logic or critical thinking skills; heck... that's why they're believers in the first place. If they employed logic and critical thinking, they WOULD NOT BE believers. So, even though these concepts create a logical impossibility, it does not seem to present a significant problem for them.

Answer 2

I don't believe in any specific God or gods. But theoretically, knowledge of the future and freewill can coexist if the following are true: 1. God planned everything he would ever do in the universe before it happened. What he sees himself doing in the future was predetermined choice. 2. People do not know the future. Since normal people cannot predetermine all future decisions, they cannot know the future without it affecting their freewill (if, of course, we assume there is an absolute future instead of alternate realities). 3. God doesn't interfere with people's thoughts, he only observes. This is the most confusing point of the three. It means that God can know what we will decide without affecting our decision process. It seems counter intuitive; if God knows what we decided, then thats what we have to decide, right? NO: Its just what you DID decide. Since you didn't know the future, and God was only observing what you are doing, you are the only thing that made your decision. God just knows where your thoughts will lead you.

Answer 3

Of course there is free choice. I'm an Atheist and I choose not to believe in ridiculous fairy tales like the easter bunny, or santa, or god.

Answer 4

I dont believe he does know ur destiny, i think its more like he has a plan for us and ways to show us there. It's just a matter of taking that path or not.

Answer 5

yes. simply bcuz one knows where we'll end up doesn't necessarily mean that free choice is out the window. unless god manipulated our decisions into a certain path, then free will would be negated.

Answer 6

God doesn't know your destiny.

I used to believe in predestination, that everything that has happened, is happening, and will ever happen was written down in the Big Book (you know, the one he reads to you when you stand before him in judgement..."You did this, you did that blah blah blah"). But that's impossible, for it would mean that he has no control over what's going on. Which, in turn, means that his course is also set and can't be changed.

But all that is meaningless, since there is no god...

Answer 7

Yes but its up to you to find out where you end up. If you choose to stay at home or go out. Take up a sport or not. If you choose to have a bad attitude or not. We have choices and have to experience those choices. God just knows where you end up before we do, we have to wait til we get there.

Answer 8

Yes, It is called free will

Answer 9

I call it free will. We have our own choices to make on this Earth. We can go down other paths but we often find we have got off track from the one that is named as our destined path. Being off track is easy to do for all of us.

Answer 10

I know that I am going to leave work eventually today. I have not left yet; it is still to be done. But I know it is going to happen one way or another. But it is still my choice to leave. I could choose to stay, but I choose not to. Yet, I do have that choice.

I know my destiny, but I still have the choice. It's the same with God. He knows what we are going to choose. Someone might ask, "Well, if God is all good, and He knows we are going to do bad things, then why doesn't He stop us? Doesn't that make God evil?" The answer is no, because God gave us all a free choice.

If God had not given us free choice, we would be like a bunch of robots; we will be unable to think for ourselves or have our own sense of being. We could not act on our own; we could not choose between right and wrong or good and evil. We would be be "beings" in any sense. You can't have both "existance as a sentient being" and "always making the right choice." God gives us the gift of being alive. We make mistakes. God forgives us. We learn from our mistakes, and go on.

Answer 11

Dear Citizenprice,

Yes- because God gave us free choice. It just means that we can't decide something and have God be surprised. God's omniscience means He knows everything and this is consistent with what the Bible teaches about Him- he knows every word formed on our lips before they are even formed- but it is up to us to decide whether we use our lips to bless or to curse.

A good example of this is when King David is running from Saul (who is trying to kill him). David hides in a cave and prays to the Lord and asks the Lord - if i got so such and such city will it be safe. God tells David if he goes to the city he will be killed. So David had to make a decision. Obviously he makes the wise decision to not go to such and such city but the point is David still had to make the decision based on what was revealed to Him by God. God didn't force David -- he had free will.

i think you're confusing free choice with God's soverignty.

Hope this helps,

Nickster