lets mess with christians recap, aka the last question yahoo will allow me to ask today?

Question

For the people that have payed attention and understood this discution,(and i know it was tough for some of you, it got pretty deep)

the conclusions we must draw

1 god is all knowing, we don't have freewill, people who go to hell are bound by fate to do so

2 god is all knowing, we do have freewill, god knew some people would go to hell, but didn't try and change them just let them go to hell

3. god is not all knowing, we do have freewill, but god still knew some people would goto hell and created them anyway.

no matter how you look at it nobody can be blamed for going to hell. We are here cause god put us here, and let us choose what to do. Therefore he cannot punish us if we don't do what he wants

Its like giving a kid a gun, and punishing him for shooting himself with it.
If you don't think this makes sense, you need to think harder
if you look closer you'll see that this makes sense, Christianity doesn't!

Answer 1

Yes, you make complete sense! And, it's a good thing I'm not a Christian!

Answer 2

I have to ask what you think you are getting out of these series of questions. I am an atheist, but I see you abusing all that was set up before you.

Yes, I read your prior questions and I read your blog. What bothers me is you are trying to use logic against Christianity without any proper research.

It was established way before you...science and religion do not meet (although some disagree with me...and have well founded arguments). Therefore, you are trying to use the exact same logic that get presented on this forum by evangelical Christians and evangelical atheists time after time.

I have news for you: you are not the ultimate defender of freedom. If you truly were, you would drop these petty arguments unless you were trying to get real answers or just trying to see what would be written.

STOP TRYING TO DISPROVE CHRISTIANITY. It won't happen. Quit trying to use Christianity's logic against itself. I promise, even as an atheist, I can demonstrate how belief in no god is just as stupid as a belief in a god.

I am asking you, please stop this now. You are an embarrassment to everything I (and many other great scholars) work towards,,.WHICH IS IN TUNE WITH THE CHRISTIAN PHILOSOPHY.

By the way, since you search for such definitive answers, can you explain, definitively, how the universe was made into what we know it today (without using a THEORY like the big bang...THEORY is not something proven positive).

Answer 3

regrettably, i do no longer think of there's a fashion. I even have had some solutions deleted(no longer rather lots Islam) as a results of fact somebody did no longer like my answer. It wasn't impolite, it wasn't racist, there became into easily no reason to delete my answer. somebody purely did no longer like the respond and that they made a grievance. I despatched an digital mail and appealed it asking why that they had deleted it. I have been given a similar conventional replica and paste answer announcing they might look into it and not in any respect heard from them returned approximately it. apparently Y/A does not have adequate human beings to look into each and every grievance so if somebody complains they only delete it with out investigating it.

Answer 4

hopewriter
Level 1

Blessed are those who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. Blessed are you who hunger now, for you will be satisfied. Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh. Blessed are you when men hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.
Luke 6:20-22.

See, God is concerned mostly with the soul. He understands better than we ever could that our life on earth is so short, and even if we have to go through terrible hardships on earth, we will be rewarded in Heaven, for eternity.

God is extremely sad about the affairs of the world, and about how people die and are in poverty. But he believes that if we see our fellow neighbor suffering, WE are supposed to act and help them with their problems. He knows that although people may be suffering for a little while on earth, he will give them the ultimate reward in Heaven. He also knows that a worldwide miracle wouldn't even solve everything. First of all, scientists would find a way to take credit for it and explain it, people would be terrified at such power, and then we would not get the chance to learn from our mistakes.

However, if we pray to God in his son's name and fully believe that our request will be answered, as long as it is noble and honest, he will do it. If it is not answered, then we are at fault because we had doubts.

We ruined his perfect world, so we are the ones to blame, not God. If everyone lived their lives according to his commandments and teachings, we wouldn't have all of the problems that we do.

Answer 5

No... that doesn't quite make sense. 'Omniscience' is logically incompatible with 'free will'. 'Omniscience', all by itself, is sufficient to put the lid on 'free will'; omnipresence and omnipotence are irrelevant. It is not necessary for god to intervene in order to negate 'free will' as a possibility. Omniscience negates free will all by itself.

If we really DO have 'free will', then an omniscient god is logically excluded. The logical fallacy lies in the premise that if god is omniscient, all outcomes are already known to god... everything that you think, decide and do... and everything that you WILL think, decide, and do.

For an omniscient being, all of existence over all of time is laid out as a tapestry before him... past, present and future, down to the smallest detail of material, of thought and of deed, and all is constantly in his awareness. There is no past, present and future from that perspective... there is only an eternal 'now'.

If that is the case, since god already knows everything that will happen, then everything is already decided... and as we go along through life, we are merely doing what has already been seen by god. Since god knows and sees everything that will happen, NOTHING that we think or do can be contrary to what god already sees and knows. We might THINK we have free will... but since we are merely acting out what god already sees and knows, this can be no more than an ILLUSION of free will.

Put another way, if you come to a point of decision, you have no choice but to take the path that god already knows you will take... there is no other option. That works all the way down the path of cause-and-effect... and, along the way, it even casts doubt on the validity of the concept of cause and effect. I don't want to get into that, though... it makes my hair hurt.

So, imagine that since before time began, since before the universe was created, god has 'known' that you would come to a point of decision at some spatial and temporal coordinate, and that faced with the possible paths A and B, you would take path A.

Now, during the course of your life, you arrive at that spatial and temporal coordinate where this choice exists. You evaluate the potential outcomes, and you have it in your head that you have 'free will', and thus, you are free to choose between path A and path B. However, since god is 'omniscient', and god 'knows' that you will take path 'A', then path B IS NOT an option... it IS NOT a matter of choice... it is a 'NECESSITY'. OF NECESSITY, you WILL take path A. Not 'must'... not 'can'... WILL take path A. You DO NOT have a choice. Path B is NOT an option... it is not even a POSSIBILITY. The best that you can achieve is the ILLUSION that you are free to choose.

So, either god is omniscient OR we have free will. It is QUITE IMPOSSIBLE for BOTH of these conditions to coexist.

The only way out of this logical dilemma is to limit god's power; i.e., start taking away things that god can see and know, until we get to a point where free will BECOMES a possibility. But when we start doing that, then he ceases to be omniscient... and thus ceases to be a 'supreme being'.

So... free will is an impossibility concomitant with an omniscient diety. The following sums up the possibilities:

1. There is no omniscient diety... therefore, the whole argument is stupid and irrelevant.

2. IF we possess 'free will' AND god exists, THEN, of necessity, it is IMPOSSIBLE that god is omniscient. (This does not preclude the notion of 'god'... it just means that he can't be as 'supreme' as one might think he is... or wish him to be.) You are (logically) obliged to acknowledge that god CAN NOT BE all knowing... and since omniscience is one of the things that makes god 'all powerful', then this means that god CAN NOT BE omnipotent, either.

3. IF god exists AND god is omniscient THEN, OF NECESSITY, it is IMPOSSIBLE that that we have free will, and you are (metaphorically speaking) nothing more than a piece on god's eternal game board; and, thus, "... man is not responsible for his actions."

Personally, I vote for number 1. You can pick any one you want... but YOU MUST PICK ONE, because there are NO OTHER possible outcomes... NO OTHER logically valid choices.

It is unfortunate (for the Abrahamic death cults of desert monotheism) that the concepts of god were solidified as dogma a few thousand years before the philosophical discipline of 'logic' was dreamed up by the Greeks. Those that concocted the religion did not have access to the intellectual tools that would have enabled them to realize that they had 'screwed the pooch' with respect to assigning god's impossible attributes. It wasn't until the 4th century that this logical impossibility garnered serious attention, and churchmen got their theological 'dancin' shoes' on, trying to weasel their way out of the logical dilemma.

They did not succeed, and this issue continues to be debated even 'til this day. This logical dilemma (and the resulting 'cognitive dissonance') was a key element in some of the various 'heresies' that were spawned in the early days of Christianity.

However, the simple observation that these impossible beliefs still exist shows that this does not seem to have been a very big hindrance, under the simple expediency that "There is no problem so big that we cannot ignore it, until it will go away." Too bad for them, though... it DOESN'T go away.

Corporate religion is helped along by the fact that most 'believers' do not employ logic or critical thinking skills; heck... that's why they're believers in the first place. If they employed logic and critical thinking, they WOULD NOT BE believers. So, even though these concepts create a logical impossibility, it does not seem to present a significant problem for them.

Answer 6

#2. Knew what you were going to do. Would not change your mind for you. He knew some would not choose Him and they would go to hell because of the decision that was made. God grieves for us but He will not force any of us to follow Him.

Being born to freely make our life decisions is a little bit different than giving a kid a gun..................you are too funny!

-s

Answer 7

Hey, if you people don't stop with these anti-Christian questions, they'll stop going on this site resulting in no one to make fun of. Just try not to do as often, alright? And DuckPhup seriously needs to shut up.

Answer 8

Since you can't post anymore, Now you can read about what christianity really is about!


http://www.pbc.org/library/series/10307


If Christians make you made we might just be doing a good job. Jesus said we would be rejected like him!

Thanks for the confirmation!!!!!!!!!!!!

Answer 9

Does an evil one exist? I believe in a unified spiritual realm. From my point of view, my answer must be no. Do their evil ones exist? From my point of view, my answer must be yes. Their evil ones do exist here on Earth as thoughts, beliefs, or expectations in their minds. Maybe some choose to believe in a spiritual conflict between good and evil. I believe evil is an abstract idea used by some predators to vilify and demonize prey, attack self and world esteem of prey, and justify double standards and predatory behavior in a body consuming biosphere divided by a primal conflict between predator and prey. I do not agree with ideological authorities that lead communities of faithful believers to think, believe and expect that while their good one ruled Earth in beginning and their good one will rule Earth in the end, at present and on into the unforeseeable future their evil one rules Earth because belief that their evil one rules the Earth in present leads to thought, belief and expectation that self and Earth are evil in the present. I believe such ideas produce low esteem of self and world and powerful emotional responses of sad sorrow, mad fear, and bad anger. I choose to devote my energy, space and time to the idea that our universe rules behaviors, fates and destinies of our seed bodies with laws of cause and effect that reward us for good behavior with immunity and life and punish us for bad behavior with disease and death. I choose to devote my energy, space, and time to the idea that an infinity, divinity, eternally, one rules behaviors, fates and destinies of all souls with spiritual laws of love and freedom. I analyze worldviews of others to better secure my freedom to practice my I.D.E.O.L.O.G.Y. way.

Answer 10

I will Pray for you!!!!!! Jesus died for you and me because he loved us and weather he knows what you will do in your life or not is irrelevant, all that matters is what you do with the gift he gave you... for the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life thru Jesus Christ our Lord.