Lets mess with christians part 3?

Question

Ok this time the only rebuttle i got that was even close to making sense was that just because god knows what the outcome is doesn't mean you don't get to choose or something like that.

Essentially what that means is that god created me knowing what I would choose, and even though he is all powerful and could have made me differently, HE himself chose not to do so. He decided to make me in such a way that I would choose to go to hell. So then why is it ok for him to punish me for something he chose to let me do.

Wouldn't that be like choosing to let a 5 year old kid hold a loaded weapon knowing perfectly well that the kid might choose to shoot himself with it. If the kid shot himself it would be your fault for letting the kid have the gun in the first place. You couldn't fault the kid for doing wrong, because he doesn't understand the consequences of his actions.

Answer 1

Logically speaking, omnipotence implies predestination. Predestination implies a lack of free will.

Happy peanuts over chocolate covered mountain tops. And waterfalls of caramel. Prancing nougat in the meadow sings a song of satisfaction to the world. The world.

Answer 2

Actually, the situation is a bit different from your analogy. As children, we are all more vulnerable to harm because of our curious and gullible nature. Often, children don't understand that something would kill them if they did it. They must merely be told that it is bad, and God has given us parents to do that. This is because, as you said, the child doesn't understand the consequences of his actions.
Adults, on the other hand, have something called reason. They understand the consequences of their actions because of something a thing that goes hand- in hand with reason; natural law, the grown-up word for conscience.
For example, every adult (excluding the mentally unstable and other known exceptions) knows that it is wrong to murder in cold blood (at all, really, but war is inevitable). Those who do it anyway on a regular basis do not do it with reason in mind - they do it because of emotions (once again, the criminally insane may be an exception); because of hate, fear, anger, etc. They realize afterward, if not while in the very act, that what they are doing/have done is/was wrong. However, a person can dull their consience by refusing to listen to it. However, that is a choice that requires much deliberation and involves many other choices.

There are always exceptions, however, and those should be left for God alone to judge.

With all due respect,
Tony Viz
P.S: I'm basically agreeing with and expounding on what Maxafrigginlutely has said.

Answer 3

First let me address your analogy to a five year old with a loaded gun. Every person has a unique period of time in their life when they become self aware, and realize right from wrong. Christians call this time "the age of accountability." Once a person obtains this age, they are now responsible for their actions, at which point their decisions will affect their eternal salvation. All children who have not reached this point, are saved by grace.

You have free will, choose Him or don't. He may know the outcome, but it is your decision to make. He wants you to love Him and to choose Him because you can, not because you have to, if there wasn't a choice, the Love wouldn't have the same value. Why would you choose hell - if you know there is another path - to make a point? You'd face eternal seperation from paradise and God just to spite Him? Why? It is completely illogical.

I would suggest that you ask yourself - why are you so angry with God? The mere title of your question "Lets mess with Christians" demonstrates that you have a vendetta against Him. Has He not provided you with the Earth to live upon, Air to breath, Water to drink, the Sun to give you light, Plants and Animals to eat, Materials from which to build shelter. Has he not provided you with others, so you have companionship? He has not supplied you with all you need, and in return, all He asks is that you acknowledge Him, that you admit that you need Him. For your own sake, stop being stubborn, you are only robbing yourself of the blessings He wants to bestow upon you. Ask Him to forgive you. Ask Him to enter your heart and to show you the truth. Ask this in Jesus name, and you will see the truth in an entirely new light.

Answer 4

Yes, you may choose hell right now, but you never know what's going to happen days, months, or even years down the track... something could happen and you could turn and change from your decision to go to hell... ya never know... Jesus is here and anything can happen... he works in mysterious ways! For example, a little while ago, I was hauling *** down a street in my Camaro, (around midnight) racing some stupid *** rustang... and I was winning. I was getting close to the stop sign, (which was the finish point) and for the speed I was going, I must have left it a little too late to shove on the brakes. So I started skidding in a straight line. The brakes were'nt slowing me down at all. (This is a "T" intersection) So I flew over a ditch, through the roadsigns, through some gates, throught some wooden posts, through some metal barriers, between two trees, smacked on the ground, and then into a pond. Not to mention that my car dragged the metal barrier into the pond. And all I came out with were some minute glass cuts on my arm, and a inch long airbag scrape. So, that didn't seem so bad. But when we looked back at what happened, it just didn't make sense. Judging by my skid marks, I was heading straight for a tree going at least 60 mph. And that's instant death, especially in a Camaro. They say that I must have turned the wheel at the last minute to avoid the tree - but I know that I didn't turn the wheel at all, because I held onto it the entire time, with my arms straight out. So I know for sure it wasn't me. It was the Man upstairs. Well, hope this means something for ya, even though it probably won't in your case. But goodluck with what ya do. And don't do anything stupid like I did!

Answer 5

In your example of the kid with the loaded weapon, you said "might"...God doesn't have to "might" or second guess our actions because He already knows. We are pretty much God's video games...we have no free will and it is God who grants us salvation through Jesus Christ. I used to question why I am who I am and found the answer to be that I am who God wants me to be. You don't choose God, He has already chosen you. You are predestined and you have been before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 2:8-10...plus many more...Romans 9:13-24...there are more...Think about this: The maker of the sony television knows all there is about the television. Why would God be any different concerning knowledge about us...after all, like Sony made the television and knows all about the television, so does God know all about his creations.

Answer 6

The main theme I see here--and always when it comes to Middle Eastern Religious "Reasoning" is that God KNOWS, but He is too stupid to know what you are going to do.
One answer actually says "God is not All-Creating" (omnipotent) as the bible describes.
Another confuses Man's ignorance with God All-Knowing (omniscience).
This is often the case with "good-for-the-moment" religous mentality these Middle Eastern cults teach.
Just be cool with the idea "God is Omniscient. If He created it, then He ain't got nothin' to bi*ch about. You are okay in his book or He would'n't have created you...unless you want to think He is too stupid to not create that which piss*s Him off." (which is what every religon from the Middle East unofficially buys into.) Just relax and leave everything to God, after all, He can solve the Worlds problems, so you are just a snap in comparison.

Answer 7

Your metaphor is incorrect. It is like a 15+ year old kid who you've told their whole life that guns are dangerous and then they find it and shoot themselves.
God knows the outcome...yes. But He chose to give you and I a choice so that we could have the chance to experience TRUE love...love that you are not forced into...that's why we have free will. I chose to know what true love really is through my Lord and Savior. To choose to be in love with my God is a "feeling" that is not compared to anything that I ever will feel otherwise.
Back to the flaws in that metaphor; you obviously do understand the consequences of your actions since you've been able to articulate your ideas about the subject...you are not that 5 year old kid who doesn't know any better...you're a responsible, capable human being with a gun in your hands taunting your father with a threat of taking your own life and trying to convince people it's His fault.

Answer 8

No this question is more stupid than the last.
You are making false assumptions. He made you in a way that you could choose good or evil. There is nothing wrong with the way he made you. The problem is with your choice. You are trying all kinds of ways to hide from your responsibility. You still think that God is supposed to serve you. It is the opposite. You were put here to serve God. If you make yourself useless, why would you blame him for allowing you to go to hell. Especially since you are the one choosing it.

Edit: After reading the other posts I see that you are the leader of morons.

Answer 9

"You couldn't fault the kid for doing wrong, because he doesn't understand the consequences of his actions"

You had me till you said that. THATS just the point, you know rejecting Christ could send you to Hell, so you know the consequences of your actions. You were doing okay till then. Hence free will. You know both options, you make the choice.

I may know my 5 year old will choose chocolate over broccoli, but I can still give him the choice.

Answer 10

I just answered this question is your last post when I quoted Paul from his letter to the Romans. But maybe I can add something to what I said earlier.

The Apostle Paul implies that God allows certain people to exist (like Satan, or the Pharaoh who opposed Moses), even though he knows that they will do evil and be thrown into Hell, because their evil somehow serves the greater good.

In short, if God cannot save you, then he will still allow you to exist (and go to Hell) if by so doing he can somehow create more good by so doing (such as, saving someone else from Hell by using you as an example of what not to do).

It is not illogical, or cruel, to sacrifice one nonredeemable person in order to save the many.