10 out of the 12 apostled died for Jesus. Does that prove he was God?

Question

How many people died for the Heaven's Gate cult - believing that their soul would go to the Hallepop comet?
How many died for David Koresh - believing he was God. If they didn't believe he was God they would have left that compound.
How many people died for Jim Jones, drinking cool aid?

Does 10 of 12 apostles dieing for Jesus prove Jesus was God? Absolutely not.

There were 21 Middle Eastern Muslim men who boarded 4 planes on September 11, 2001. Wether or not they knew they were all on a suicide mission or not, they found out before the end, and praised their God Allah. Are they martyers?

Your thoughts?

Answer 1

No, it doesn't. That argument for the proof of God is stupid. All their deaths proved (according to that line of thinking) was that they believed that Jesus was God, and were willing to die for it. But early texts suggest that nobody at the time thought Jesus was Divine, including the apostles. That belief came later, and was debated at length until a consensus was reached in the 5th century by Church authorities, at which point all other beliefs about Christ were deemed "heretical."

Answer 2

I think alot has to do with the motive of the person who is dying.
The Heaven's gate cult and the Jim Jones koolaid drinkers were not interested in helping anyone but themselves. I don't think we could count them as martyrs.
In David Koresh's case, I think we'd have to examine his motives. Why were those people there with him? What was Koresh really trying to do? Can we compare David Koresh to Jesus Christ? I don't think so.
Were those muslim men on a mission of love, the way Jesus' disciples were? Obviously not. So, no, we cannot call them martyrs.
What was the motive Jesus had for going willingly to the cross? (Even if you don't believe God would have sent Him an army of angels, He still could have made a run for it the night He was arrested.) And what was the motive of the men who willingly died trying to bring His message to other people? Were they committing suicide on purpose? I don't think so. They believed that they had a message that would bring all who heard and believed it into a relationship with a loving God Who would give them the gift of everlasting life. That is a mission a person could get excited about.

You have shown me that a person must believe very strongly in his cause, in order to die for it. What was it about Jesus that inspires so many men and women, across 20 centuries, to continue to put their lives on the line, in order to bring His message to the world? Could it be His love?

Answer 3

You will find that many people who want to find something other than our Bible will believe a lie. Jesus would never tell his followers to pick up a gun and fight. Turn the other cheek. Jim Jones in a service threw down the Bible and said stop believing this nonsense, believe me. Most of the people who drank the kool aid, did so at gun point. They called their congressman to help them, he came to save some people and take them home and he was shot. All of these are cults. They do not follow the Bible. Judas hung himself and John died of natural causes. John was captured at one point and was put in a Calderon with boiling water, but nothing happened to him. The 21 men who murdered thousands 9-11 are not martyrs. Their religion is all about sex. Our lives are not all about sex. Sex is a loving thing between two people. One man and 72 virgins; Is that heaven for the virgins or would that be hell. If you asked any woman if she would want to be part of a harem of 72 women for one really ugly man, how many would jump for the chance. These murderers, think that what they could not get in this life they could have 71 more in the afterlife. How could any Muslim think this is okay???????????

Answer 4

November 21, 2005 · I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond Atheism. Atheism is not believing in God. Not believing in God is easy -- you can't prove a negative, so there's no work to do. You can't prove that there isn't an elephant inside the trunk of my car. You sure? How about now? Maybe he was just hiding before. Check again. Did I mention that my personal heartfelt definition of the word "elephant" includes mystery, order, goodness, love and a spare tire?

So, anyone with a love for truth outside of herself has to start with no belief in God and then look for evidence of God. She needs to search for some objective evidence of a supernatural power. All the people I write e-mails to often are still stuck at this searching stage. The Atheism part is easy.

But, this "This I Believe" thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, "This I believe: I believe there is no God."

Having taken that step, it informs every moment of my life. I'm not greedy. I have love, blue skies, rainbows and Hallmark cards, and that has to be enough. It has to be enough, but it's everything in the world and everything in the world is plenty for me. It seems just rude to beg the invisible for more. Just the love of my family that raised me and the family I'm raising now is enough that I don't need heaven. I won the huge genetic lottery and I get joy every day.

Believing there's no God means I can't really be forgiven except by kindness and faulty memories. That's good; it makes me want to be more thoughtful. I have to try to treat people right the first time around.

Believing there's no God stops me from being solipsistic. I can read ideas from all different people from all different cultures. Without God, we can agree on reality, and I can keep learning where I'm wrong. We can all keep adjusting, so we can really communicate. I don't travel in circles where people say, "I have faith, I believe this in my heart and nothing you can say or do can shake my faith." That's just a long-winded religious way to say, "shut up," or another two words that the FCC likes less. But all obscenity is less insulting than, "How I was brought up and my imaginary friend means more to me than anything you can ever say or do." So, believing there is no God lets me be proven wrong and that's always fun. It means I'm learning something.

Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.

Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-o and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have.

Answer 5

Those people in the modern world are simply false Prophets. Many people like to claim that they were called by the Holy Spirit to make a new religion that is more classified as a sect. But is false. There are even people in this era claiming they are Jesus. That the Spirit of Jesus is in them and reincarnated in them.

As I Christian I keep my eyes open.

There is Only One God, One Holy Spirit and One Jesus All in one.
The rest are cheap imitators looking for money and corrupt weak minds.

Those Muslims who are terrorist are extremists who are taking certain worlds of their Koran to literally, and is ruining the reputation of all Islamic people. I know that there are many Islams that are against this and all they want is peace.

But I believe that Islam has an incorrect way of interpreting God. God isn't a God of war or hate, is a God of Love.

Answer 6

Just because someone dies for someone in the name of God does not give proof.
The apostles actually walked with Jesus and saw him live and saw him die and were convinced that he was God because of what the prophets said about him before he came to earth.

There are other ways to prove God's existence. And those people that led others to die for them were never sent by God.

Answer 7

My Beloved Jim Darwin-
Again, your analogies are flawed. No one believes that the martyrdom of the 10 proves the existence of God or the divinity of Jesus. Both facts are issues of faith. I was agnostic for the first 22 years of my life, although I always knew that there had to be a designer for the universe. It was the truth that found me, not I who discovered the truth. I will pray that the same will occur for you.

Peace.

Answer 8

The deaths of the Apostles DOES prove Jesus was God and that all He said was true. Now, how does this become proof? First of all no one dies for a lie. And a lie never prospers. It may be remembered for all history, but no one implements one in their lives and find it so worthy to die for. And so, as far as David Koresh and Jim Jones, they have lied and decieved their people and caused them great harm. And let us not forget that Jim Jones forced his people at gun point to drink the cyanide cool-aide.
Christ has never forced his apostles into martyrdom. They chose to die for Him and the Gospel. Why? Because He is real and the Gospel is true. Christ knew that they would suffer martyrdom when He said to John and James, "can you drink from the same cup I drink?" He was speaking about His passion, suffering, and death. And remember at the Garden He prayed, "Father take this cup from me, but not as I will but as You will." And Christ knew that the world would be hostile to Him and the Gospel and that His followers would naturally experience the same.
Still, where is the proof? Remember what I said earlier, "a lie never prospers. It may be remembered for all of history, but no one implements one in their lives and find it so worthy to die for." Even if the disciples of Karesh and Jones (I don't think many survived) are among us, have their beliefs flurished and spread as the Christian Gospel? For if what is preached is truth and of God then it goes on without hinderance or impediment (even if the obstacles are the Christians themselves). And so, since Christianity remains even after centuries of oppression, torture, deaths, insults, indifference, and skepticism it is found to be true and of God. If it was not of God, then it would not flurish and spread. Only God in His Holy Spirit in the Body of Christ makes His Word fruitful and enduring. And why would the Christian Gospel of Jesus Christ endure and spead if it were not for the life and freedom it offers. Karesh and Jones did not offer life and freedom. They were cults that suppressed the people. They divorced themselves from humanity and truth and that always leads to destruction.
May the Lord bless and keep you. May He let the light of His face shine upon you.
God's and your beast of burden
Fr. john

Answer 9

You Will Get All The Proof And Truth Whwn You Become Born Again. Praise Jesus

Answer 10

Good analogy Jim, but either God had a plan for them or the devil was living inside these individuals. The devil lurks in the four corners of the earth, and in thought so the only way to escape him is in prayer, To GOD.. Noone said Christianity was easy. I'd rather die for something Christ had me do to teach the word, than drinking myself to death on this planet and not being a servant of God.