Here is one for the atheists: read on for details?

Question

All you logical atheists out there would think about this one. I am Christian, and when I die, I will either find that Heaven and God is how the Bible describes them, or will dissappear into nothingness. If I am right, I gain heaven for all eternity. If I am wrong, I've lived a good life, been a good husband, father, and friend and lost nothing. If an atheist dies and is right, he loses nothing, but if he is wrong, then he goes to hell forever for refusing to accept Jesus as messiah, savior, and lord of his life. Logically, which path is the better to take? (is this a no brainer- maybe that's why I'm asking the atheists :) )

Added detail. I am talking about the one true God and not just anything you can call god. I am talking specifically about the God of the Bible. He is the real God.

Wow, you argue over the question but never give an answer. You talk about "other" Gods and what you think God should do. But you refuse to answer the question! You hold on to your imaginary thoughts and foolish logic. So, why do you bother answering if you're not going to answer the question asked?

Answer 1

OK I'm agnostic and I will try and answer your question.
This idea is known as Pascals wager as has already been mentioned. You are correct with your statement. If Christianity is true then I'm going to hell. Yes, its that simple. So the only alternative is to become a christian. But that's not possible for me. You see, I don't believe. I was born and raised a catholic. Had it forced on me. But I made a choice when I was a teeneger and I've stuck with it. You can bring a donkey to a stream but you can't make him drink from it. Just as in the same way that you could recite the bible aloud and I could criticize various notions as absurd ie turning water into wine, rising from the grave, feeding 5000 (yes 5000 people!) with 5 loaves of bread and 2 pieces of fish. I could go on. It just doesnt add up friend you can't MAKE someone believe it. You don't just flip a switch and convert someone like that.
If Jesus is all knowing, he would turn me away from the pearly gates because he would know the true feelings in my heart.
Faith or lack thereof, is a choice.

Answer 2

Okay...give me a second...Since I'm an atheist I'll dismiss the first possibility (If I am right, I gain heaven for all eternity. If I am wrong, I've lived a good life, been a good husband, father, and friend and lost nothing.) cause I just don't care. As for the second part I don't believe in god so I can't be wrong and go to hell cause guess what?! I don't believe in hell, aren't you a smart kid. Logically, this is a no brainer, dying an atheist is good cause you won't have to spend your life worrying "oh no! I sinned! I"m going to hell! *cry cry cry*" instead you just accept life as it is and be happy with you'll never honestly know how the world started but who cares, you died happy.

Btw, I'm not trying to tell you to convert, I'm just telling you what's logical not fictional.

Answer 3

That is where you, and so many other people are wrong! i hate people who say crap like that! I'm athiest and if i'm right...then i'm right, nothing else to it. but if i'm wrong, and their really is a God or heaven, then he will not just do away with me and send me to hell because i didn't accept him. I'm a really good person, i volunteer at the animal rescue leage, i've raised over $200 for the American Red Cross, and i'm in Big Brothers, Big Sisters, which if you don't know, is and organization where older people/ high school kids go help elementary students, who usually have had a really hard life so far, with problems at home or school and give them someone to talk to and trust.

Now do you think god would really send me to hell just because i couldn't accept him...cause if you do, then you are a bad christian. The rest of my family is really christian and i was always taught that god and jesus were both really forgiving people and realize that some people just cant believe in them. When jesus went and did those miracles, he did them to people who DIDN'T BELIEVE, because he thought that he could change thier mind.

I can't belive in god because i am a very scientifical person and just need hard core facts that something is their or exists. i'm not just doing it because i hate god, because i don't, i just don't think he exists because their is no evidence. after all that i've told you and the reason why i can't believe, Does that really make me a bad enough person who needs to go to hell?

Answer 4

So you're saying that your faith is your way of hedging your bets? Paschal's wager? Perhaps I'm being unfair...

The problem at hand is this: YOUR religion dictates salvation through faith. Other religions dictate salvation through works. Many, if not all, religions rely on faith to overcome reason, and there are too many examples of contradiction between the bible (or Koran, if you like) and the actions of "Holy Men" For instance - if God says "Thou shall not kill", how do you justify the crusades? Or the Spanish Inquisition? Or Honor killings?

Galileo Galilei was persecuted - by the church - for saying the earth moved around the sun. How are they the authority on these matters? This unbridled arrogance is amazing to watch.

You have corrupt or misguided men doing God's will - why does He tolerate them? Do you recall the scandal in Boston a few years back?

And so you hedge your bets (forgive the unjust characterization of your faith - you seem a decent, upstanding fellow - but you did open the door) by casting your lot with religion, which routinely rejects logic in favor of a corrupt dogma.

You're right, it is a no-brainer - we have a brain and the ability to use it. If I chose to believe in God I would not want to waste his gift by blindly following leaders who teach one thing, then do another (I think we call those politicians :-)

Answer 5

I always love it when someone tries to preach using logic.
Your argument is sound as you express it in yuor question, but what you left out is all the ridiculous and nonsensical things that come along with accepting Jesus as your lord and personal savior.
Besides, I don't understand why religious folks feel the need to preach to the atheists, since by your world view, everything that happens is god's will. If I was meant to be a christian, god would have made me a christian. Instead, he made me an atheist, probably to test your faith or some such nonsense.

Answer 6

What if you are an atheiest and don't believe in hell? Then to you, no matter how good or bad of a life I have lived, i will dissapear into nothingness like the millions of people before me when i die. I will not transcend somewhere else. I will die, be burried or cremated and that's that. So live the type of life you want now while you have it and know that this is it.

Answer 7

I didn't realize that this was an either/or issue. It seems that on this site that Christians behave much like the Islamist in that, if you don't believe like they do you are an "infidel" or "atheist". There are many other belief systems in this world that do not believe in heaven and hell or nothingness even among Christians.

What upsets so many with this type of Christianity, is the knowledge that black and white thinking expressed by fundamentalist literalism is actually human dysfunction bordering on mental illness. It's dragging the rest of humanity down with it.

Answer 8

You stated:

"and when I die, I will either find that Heaven and God is how the Bible describes them, or will disappear into nothingness."

That statement is false. You could find that Heaven and God are how the Koran describes them.

So, you fell into a logic trap.

You need to open your mind to diverse knowledge, not just one book and one doctrine.

BTW, I had never heard the term Pascal's wager before. I learned something today. I thank the respondents who enlightened me.

Answer 9

i would say this because i have thought the same thing.

if there is a God and you live your life 'on-the-safe-side' so to speak...wherein you figure you will believe in good because the worst you could be is wrong, then is that really living a religious life? doubtful. i believe a true GOD would know all too well the truth within the indivduals that he must then allow to reach heaven to condem to hell.

i would also say that if there is a god that he cares more about your one on one relationship with him and your relationship with others than about what religion you are and how often you went to church etc.

if you are a good person inside and you know without a doubt that you are a wholesome individual...you will find your true place in this and the afterworld.

Answer 10

"If you believe in God and turn out to be incorrect, you have lost nothing -- but if you don't believe in God and turn out to be incorrect, you will go to hell. Therefore it is foolish to be an atheist."

This argument is known as Pascal's Wager. It has several flaws.

Firstly, it does not indicate which religion to follow. Indeed, there are many mutually exclusive and contradictory religions out there. This is often described as the "avoiding the wrong hell" problem. If a person is a follower of one religion, he may end up in another religion's version of hell.

Even if we assume that there's a God, that doesn't imply that there's one unique God. Which should we believe in? If we believe in all of them, how will we decide which commandments to follow?

Secondly, the statement that "If you believe in God and turn out to be incorrect, you have lost nothing" is not true. Suppose you're believing in the wrong God -- the true God might punish you for your foolishness. Consider also the deaths that have resulted from people rejecting medicine in favor of prayer.

Another flaw in the argument is that it is based on the assumption that the two possibilities are equally likely -- or at least, that they are of comparable likelihood. If, in fact, the possibility of there being a God is close to zero, the argument becomes much less persuasive. So sadly the argument is only likely to convince those who believe already.

Also, many feel that for intellectually honest people, belief is based on evidence, with some amount of intuition. It is not a matter of will or cost-benefit analysis.

Formally speaking, the argument consists of four statements:

1. One does not know whether God exists.
2. Not believing in God is bad for one's eternal soul if God does exist.
3. Believing in God is of no consequence if God does not exist.
4. Therefore it is in one's interest to believe in God.

There are two approaches to the argument. The first is to view Statement 1 as an assumption, and Statement 2 as a consequence of it. The problem is that there's really no way to arrive at Statement 2 from Statement 1 via simple logical inference. The statements just don't follow on from each other.

The alternative approach is to claim that Statements 1 and 2 are both assumptions. The problem with this is that Statement 2 is then basically an assumption which states the Christian position, and only a Christian will agree with that assumption. The argument thus collapses to "If you are a Christian, it is in your interests to believe in God" -- a rather vacuous tautology, and not the way Pascal intended the argument to be viewed.

Also, if we don't even know that God exists, why should we take Statement 2 over some similar assumption? Isn't it just as likely that God would be angry at people who chose to believe for personal gain? If God is omniscient, he will certainly know who really believes and who believes as a wager. He will spurn the latter... assuming he actually cares at all whether people truly believe in him.

Some have suggested that the person who chooses to believe based on Pascal's Wager, can then somehow make the transition to truly believing. Unfortunately, most atheists don't find it possible to make that leap.

In addition, this hypothetical God may require more than simple belief; almost all Christians believe that the Christian God requires an element of trust and obedience from his followers. That destroys the assertion that if you believe but are wrong, you lose nothing.

Finally, if this God is a fair and just God, surely he will judge people on their actions in life, not on whether they happen to believe in him. A God who sends good and kind people to hell is not one most atheists would be prepared to consider worshipping.>

from http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/arguments.html#pascal