Are you willing to sign this petition?

Question

http://www.grassfire.org/142/petition.asp?RID=11316589

This isn't right. This bozo was sneaking drugs into our country and of course he was an illegal from Mexico. These border patrol guys are needed by us and they are doing a job that the government refuses to do because they are completley useless and obviously do not care about the U.S. citizens. I find this to be an outrage. True Americans need to voice their disapproval concerning this issue. An illegal drug smuggler's "rights" should NEVER come before the rights of American citizens, who happen to be Hispanic. (before you start playing the race card)

SKupid, great answer and I feel the same way.

Answer 1

I would rather stick my dick in a wall socket, than sign an online petition. It would be more productive....

Answer 2

Rather than playing the race card (no need it) or to slip into some sort of xenophobia I'd rather play the "due process" card. Outrageous as many situations can be (and actually are), due process must be followed or else we might end up packing up the whole universe of rights, which is foundational to democracy. Law offenders may seem to be in a better position to get the best out of the system, but we rather defend this systems or else we may fall into two extremes:
1. Survival of the fittest: Everybody fends for themselves (Somalia-style warlords)
OR
2. Some sort of authoritarianism: dictatorship, theocracy, etc.
But, there are many people all over the world that would rather live under those two extremes. This is the danger, to me.

Answer 3

The only "True Americans" are Native American Indians, which we so nicley, stole, killed, raped, poisoned , cheated , infected, sold drugs and weapons to. So if we are to accept your argument about True Americans.shouldn't we at least compensate American Indians for what we have done to their cultures? With that said, More Border patrol members are not going to stop the problem. The Government is crying poor but spending 200 million a day on Iraq to try fix that disaster. Youcan thank NAFTA and a bunch of other failed government programs. If you really want to stem illegal immigration we need to spend our resources here to fix the problem from within.

Answer 4

when a cop in new york shoots an unarmed black person because he "thought he had a gun", the cop gets in trouble. if they shoot the person IN THE BACK, then they really, really get in trouble. whether or not the person is a drug dealer is irrelevant to the situation because the cop didn't know that when they fired the gun.

same goes for border patrol. they are clearly instructed NOT to shoot people who are fleeing. if they are allowed to shoot at will because they're angry at the person or want to decide the law for themselves, then we will be living in a third world country.

20 years is harsh, and i can't believe any judge would actually give that sentence. however, punishment is in order. how can you complain about "illegal" immigrants while allowing our own law enforcement agents to break the law?

Answer 5

Princess, I clicked on your link and sort of did sign.

That is to say I wrote my personal message and pushed 'send'. However, the fine print says the email and names are on file with Grassfire and will be transmitted with the petition, and I never got a screen where the email and name was requested.

I think they need that to give emphasis to the petition, although, since this is not a legal referendum, perhaps they don't think it is necessary.

If there is a page that does have the registration requirements, though, you may want to post it.

Answer 6

"It is a violation of Border Patrol regulations to go after someone who is fleeing," she said. "The Border Patrol pursuit policy prohibits the pursuit of someone."

Her arguments, along with testimony from other agents on the scene and that of the smuggler himself, swayed a jury. It was a crushing blow to Compean and Ramos, both of whom had pursued suspects along the border as a regular part of their job.

"The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled it is a violation of someone's Fourth Amendment rights to shoot them in the back while fleeing if you don't know who they are and/or if you don't know they have a weapon," said Kanof, the assistant U.S. attorney.

- From the article linked to on the petition's site.
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The two agents DID violate several procedures. They did break rules, however ridiculous. Compean PICKED UP shells he had fired to try to cover up that he'd discharged his weapon. The didn't report shots fired, and they did certainly pursue the suspect.

Forget the details and what really happened that we wont ever know. The evidence given points to a direct and conscious violation of procedure. According to the information I read, Ramos did not know if the suspect had a weapon. On top of all of that Aldrete-Davila was shot in the back. Yes, absolutely he might have had a gun, but I guess until we know for sure Ramos still shouldn't have fired shots (even if instinct told him to).

NO, it is not right that these agents are facing 20 years in prison or any other serious criminal charges for the events that occured that day. I can see, however, based on what I've read about the circumstances that they could be charged with SOMETHING. It seems more like they should have been fired and maybe Ramos consequenced somehow for shooting the suspect in the back. But the $5 million lawsuit is frivilous and demeaning.

Civil Rights violation? Absolutely not. Ramos, additionally, is reported to be an outstanding agent so alleging that he shot the man in the back on purpose seems silly.

Yes, the Justice System has let us down again. The US Government has failed by not taking more than FACTS into account when considering the situation at hand. The smuggler was pardoned, which is ludicrous, and full charges were pressed on men that had done their jobs a little wrong. The smuggler is absolutely guilty of crimes and he should be charged equally. But then, he's not a citizen so he'd only be shipped back to Mexico, anyway.

Yes I will sign the petition.

But you, the poster of this question, has seemingly missed the point. First of all the smuggler was bringing in Marijuana. Don't even get me started on that. Cocaine, Meth, sure I understand the fuss, even though it's all over-reaction anyway. This is Mary Jane, Chronic, the same $hit Hippies smoked in the 60's and washout losers smoke today. Marijuana might never be legalized but it's not a "drug" I'd shoot someone in the back over. Unless they stole some Hydro from me (joke).

Two, this drug smuggler, what makes him a bozo? I've been to back-*** Mexico and South America. And I've lived in ghetto right here in America. I've seen the poverty, the desparation, and starvation. The "illegal", the bozo, you're talking about very well could have a family to feed, or a son dying from illness. Who he is as a person isn't for you to judge. You don't know him or what his intentions were. He was trying to do his job, however "wrong". He was confronted by two US Border Patrol agents and he did what anyone in his position would do and he ran.

I'm sorry, but HE was doing his JOB, too. Drug dealers in any country, in most instances, are doing the only thing that will make them good money with the options they've been given. They're raised knowing they're going to smuggle drugs or sell Crack so... that's what they do. Hey, how 'bout that?

You said, "These border patrol guys are needed by us and they are doing a job that the government refuses to do because they are completley useless and obviously do not care about the U.S. citizens."

I don't even know where to begin. The US Goverment oversees Homeland Security, of which CBP is a division of. "These border patrol guys" work for the government. They aren't doing a job the government "refuses to do", they are doing a job the government PAYS them to do. They just did it differently than the 'rules' say they should have. You can't possibly say the government "does not care about ... citizens", either. It might seem like it sometimes but you are taking things way too seriously. The government is what is. It was established for a reason, to maintain order and structure, however unfair and impersonal. The US government seems like a machine, but to say what you did is pointless and negative. The US goverment isn't supposed to be personal, it's a corporate structure that operates on corporated structure. You nor I am going to effectively change the operation or effectiveness of our government.

You said, "An illegal drug smuggler's 'rights' should NEVER come before the rights of American citizens,"

I don't really know if you can say either agent's RIGHTS have been violated. Legally, and in terms of civil rights, both men were given everything they should've been. They might not have gotten JUSTICE, and the smuggler's rights might not have been violated, but the "rights" the US government promises were given to the two agents in every respect.

It seems that True American should also voice their distaste with the government, but also be thankful for the rights and the blessings we do have. At least you don't live in Mexico and at least you don't have to entertain the idea of smuggling drugs to make money.

Don't judge the man who brought the drugs into this country and don't judge "the US government". The only guilty party is the Justice System, but... it is what it is. If you were a defense lawyer you'd be protecting criminals for millions, too. So I guess EVERYONE is just "doing their job".

Sign the petition and encourage other people to. Write your congressman, call the White House. But complaining about The State of the Union doesn't do anything but make you and all of us even angrier. CHANGE us, CHANGE the government but don't be angry or you'll just change it into something else that's angry and useless...

To StupidKing I don't think you even read the article. It was ONE smuggler that ran and got shot. Either way, if US Border Patrol agents kill ANYONE they should be placed on suspension and the incident inverstigated. Rewarding anyone for killing seems violent and destructive in the message it sends and the intentions it seems to have. For anyone to be happy, for any country and any people to be happy - it seems that killing shouldn't be an option. If a border

I'll go to perspective again to enforce my opinion. If you were the best friend or wife or son of a Mexican drug smuggler you'd be devistated if he was killed. You might consider something "right or wrong" but your gauge is different than everyone elses.

Border Patrol agents should be authorized to use deadly force if necessary and pursue whenever they deem appropriate. But to shoot someone in the back when they're running (over Marijuana) is just... pointless.

[POST SCRIPT]

Illegal immigration keeps being brought up, and "illegals" criticized for being in the country.

But that's just it, this whole question (and discussion) doesn't have anything to do with race. It's about whether or not the petition is worth signing. And for that to be known, all you have to decide is if the border patrol agents' should be pardoned.

The fact that these agents were prosecuted, and that the drug smuggler pressed charges, those two things shouldn't be any more upsetting or astounding than when they happen on the mean streets right here in Anywhere, USA. Drug dealers and criminals all over the country, here legally and not of foreign descent, sue police departments and government organizations all the time. "Peace officers" and other powerful individuals are imprisoned time and time again for crimes that were commited (or not) during the line of duty.

Forget the "illegal immigrant" thing, this guy wasn't an immigrant, he was a smuggler. This has nothing to do with immigration. It has to do with civil rights, American law, and emotional opinion - but none of that should be related to the race or nationality of any party because that crap doesn't pretain to the question or the answer.

Answer 7

This reminds me of a case where someone burlarizing a house sued the owners because he tripped over something and broke his nose.

Some laws are damn stupid!

Even if those border agents shot and killed those drug smugglers (instead of just assaulting them)... they should not receive a day in jail -- they should instead be rewarded.

Answer 8

I sure will! This is an outrageous injustice. Lou Dobbs is following the case all this week. He's also called out the porsecutor and invited her to his show. Watch it this week, I have a feeling Lou is going to raise some hell over this one, he's mad as we are. Keep up the good fight!!!

Answer 9

thats like giving someone a cops job and telling him he cant arrest a criminal..they protect our borders,,then why the hell they out there if they cant do there jobs ...i dont want no more drugs in the united states we have enough to get off the streets.ANd i sure in the hell dont want no more illegal mexicans coming here..

Answer 10

Get Illegals out of the USA...

Answer 11

I hate illegals get out of OUR country.