If there's a creation there must be a creator... but is there a creation?

Question

People sometimes roll out the old chestnut which goes like this:

If there's a painting, there must be a painter.
If there's a creation, there must be a creator.

So far, so good. However, to prove that there is a creator it is necessary to prove that there is a creation, so let's hear the proof that the universe is a creation.

First person to respond with the usual "Look at the trees, look at the flowers" kind of answer gets instantly demoted to -1,000,000 Y!A points ;-)

Answer 1

... and if there's a creator, someone must have created him, according to creationism logic. (wait, that's an oxymoron)

Answer 2

Firstly, I'm not a Christian freak. Secondly "and if there's a creator, someone must have created him" is a contradiction, not an oxymoron. Thirdly, existence with no creator is a contradiction (ie: something cannot be created from nothing, cause and effect). That's why our origins are so hotly debated.

The evidence that there was a creation comes from the law and order we see in the world, ie: planets orbits, balanced days and nights, etc. (investigate Paley's watchmaker), which supposedly wouldn't come from evolution. I'm tipped towards a creator, but probably not a Christian one.

Answer 3

incorrect as to data and deduction. All of Aristotle's proofs are without this argument. and you misstate the argument besides. That argument is that no longer each and every thing could be contingent, something could be mandatory. -- Who mentioned that selection into the final argument ? I in no way use it and that i continually seek advice from the Proofs for the life of God from Plato and Arisotle. -- those issues you point out are actually not even the comparable reasons !!! The author is a outstanding reason starting to be with an exceptionally final reason in suggestions...a builder (as destructive to an architect) is a outstanding reason...The portray has a perfect reason, the element portrayed -- yet that's utter rubbish, and you are able to verify Bertrand Russell as my witness. =====> the type between God and the universe isn't no count if it extremely is eternal and self-existent !! in case you do no longer enable for God you nonetheless could say the universe is its own reason and eternal. something could be uncreated no count in case you're a believer or no longer. How-unbelievably-ignorant.

Answer 4

Since you seem determined not to accept spiritually based answers for your question, lets approach this from the standpoint of a logician/scientist.

We have the universe, which we will refer to as the system in question.

The system routinely and without exception functions within provable parameters, one of which is the first law of Thermodynamics which states there is no instance of spontaneous matter generation. Existing matter may be altered, but no more matter will be added to the system. Therefore we state that there is no observable instance of creation or addition to the overall system.

Now, having said that, we are left with only two logical scenarios. Either the system has always existed, or something outside of the system exhibited control over the system in the form of creating or altering the system.

Bottom line, either you believe that God always existed, or you believe that the Universe always existed. Either way, you believe in the eternal existance of something.

You have to make a personal choice which you believe. No one can make it for you.

As for me, God is eternal and the universe is His creation.

Answer 5

Sorry snake-bate, you just flunked art class too...
Have you ever met an artist, who didn't speak of 'inspiration'? I personally think your photo shows a little character, lesser creatures see it as food. I see it as expression of your self, lesser people would call clip-art. There is a lady that frequents this site, named Dhyana, who creates. That puts her above the food chain in my book. Look at her 360 photos. Try to understand that it's perfectly ok for a creator to be in a circular relationship with the creation. Try not to look for value, just look. Don't quantify, feel...

It is said that he who lives with logic, dies with logic...at the same time...

Answer 6

Well i learnt in physics that matter can not be created nor destroyed. So who made all this stuff? Not even scientists know. Did it always exist? Forever... or was there something before it? If there was what exists before matter exists. Eventually something has to be the beginning and it has to be eternal.

Answer 7

You'll go in circles all day with that one

They'll say because the bible tells them so

Then throw up some Bible reference like Genesis

Su Su Sudio

Answer 8

i think the creator created us to learn more about himself really...how will he know that he's a creator if he has no creations?...

Answer 9

creation or accident it's up to you