Did you know the Catholic church is a nation called the Holy See?

Question

This is a link to the CIA World Factbook's entry about the Holy See:

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/vt.html

Shouldn't Catholics be reclassified as citizens of the Holy See rather than members of a religious group?

No, this is not "medieval times."

From the website:

"This page was last updated on 20 July, 2006."

The "Holy See" is a nation equivalent to the US or any other nation. Today, right now.

The Holy See is a nation. Why shouldn't Catholics be considered citizens of the nation they actively support?

Thanks Robinhood, but I'm not attempting to argue Catholic doctrine, or "bash" Catholics. I am genuinely curious how people who become members of a nation and actively support that nation deny they are citizens of that nation. Or, why they should not be considered citizens.

Answers to questions asked:

"Holy See" is Latin for "Holy Seat."

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No, I don't use mousse on my hair. :-)

To Liet Kynes:

This:

"In addition, Catholics are members of the nations that they reside in and are under the civil law for that nation. Catholics are expected to obey the civil law unless it conflicts with morality, the natural law, and or religious duties"

Means Catholics consider the laws of the Holy See (Catholic church) superior to the laws of their home nations. Which makes them potentially subversive agents.

Your answer only reinforces my opinion that Catholics should be required to register as citizens of the Catholic church (Holy See).

A group that holds itself to be above the law needs to be monitored by law enforcement personnel.

And, authority must be given to the person claiming the authority. It is highly unlikely that non-Catholic people want the pope or his agents concerning themselves with (our) affairs, including our "eternal souls."

Thanks for your answer even though we do disagree about the issues involved.

Answer 1

Good point. maybe they should. They could be resident aliens of whatever country they live in, or maybe be dual citizens of Vatican City as well as their country of residence... Hate to see their taxes though.

Answer 2

--Is Catholic--

No. Citizenship for the Holy See is maintained by treaties signed with Italy. The three treaties signed with Italy on 11 February 1929 acknowledged, among other things, the full sovereignty of the Vatican and established its territorial extent; however, the origin of the Papal States, which over the years have varied considerably in extent, may be traced back to the 8th century

Acquisition and loss of citizenship, authorization to reside in the State of Vatican City and formalities to enter, are set out in the Law N. III of 7 June 1929, on citizenship and residence, and in the Regulation N. XXXVI of 27 September 1932, for entrance to Vatican City.

In addition, Catholics are members of the nations that they reside in and are under the civil law for that nation. Catholics are expected to obey the civil law unless it conflicts with morality, the natural law, and or religious duties. Catholics are obligated to be the best of citizens and to take part in civic duties to the extent that the opportunity presents itself.

The reason why Catholics are not a part of the Holy See is because the Catholic Church does not hold the sword of the state and does not seek to bind all peoples into a political unity, and never has. Additionally, Catholics are called to be in the world but not of it. That means being a part of the civil order, while having ones ultimate allegiance to God by progressing in salvation through the pilgrim Church.

Additionally, having Catholics be a part of the Holy See because they are under the Catholic religion, as opposed to non-Catholic, doesn't make sense according to the Catholic religion. The Catholic Church teaches that all people are under the Catholic religion and the Pope and the Bishops who are united to him. This is because as Christ is the sole means for salvation, the Body of Christ, the Church, is the sole instrument of salvation and the sole place where all peoples are gathered. The Pope is answerable before God for all souls, not just the Catholic ones. If you take a look at the role of the bishop, you will see that he is tasked with the salvation of all people within his diocese. As you can see, the Catholic faith doesn't make a distinction between who is and who is not called to be a part of the Catholic community: all are called.

Answer 3

The Catholics are being led by false doctrine and a lie . Matthew 23:9 You should call no one father , not priests . (Manual of Christian Doctrine pg.444) Catholics believe it's okay to lie to further "their" religion . The Scriptures expressly says , Exodus 20:16 , Colossians 3:9 . How can they be called Holy when they don't follow scriptures ? Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved . John 14:6

Answer 4

There are only around 900 people with Vatican citizenship. Catholics aren't politically affiliated to a country just because of their beliefs.

Catholics aren't like zionists.

Answer 5

Catholics see themselves as citizens of their own country, but also as citizens of the Vatican/Holy See.

Answer 6

Um, no dude. The peeps that live in the Vatican are citizens of the Vatican. We haven't had church law since medieval times.

Answer 7

You're thinking of Vatican city, not catholics in general. Catholics are citizens of their own nations.

Answer 8

Does the Holy See allow dual nationality? :)

Answer 9

How about Catholic Americans is that politically correct?

Answer 10

I always wondered why they call themselves the Holy See.