Bible or Church?

Question

What does Sacred Scripture call (1 Tim 3:15) "...the pillar and foundation of truth."; The CHURCH or the BIBLE?

What came first; the CHURCH or the BIBLE?

What did Christ say he came to establish; His CHURCH or the BIBLE?


http://www.catholic.com/library/Pillar.asp


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Answer 1

"The Bible teaches us and shows us that the Church came before the Bible. After all, what books did Jesus write? None! Jesus deliberately chose NOT to write. Instead He chose to establish a Church to teach in His name!

The Catholic Church believes that both the Bible and Church are both necessary and one cannot exist without the other. Here are some questions non-Catholics must consider...

(1) The Bible was not put under one cover until 397 AD at the Council of Carthage. It took a monk 10 months to hand copy the Bible. Prior to the Bible being put under one cover, who was the authority figure for the early church? Remember, the Bible did not exist as we know it today. There is NO denying the fact that authority was the church--not the Bible.

(2) How did the early Christians each own a Bible if the printing press wasn't developed until the 1500's? Even after the printing press was developed how many Christian could afford to own a Bible?


(3) Why does JESUS state the final authority is the church in Matthew 18:15-17?


(4) Where in the Bible does it state that the "Bible" is the only authority for Christians?


(5) How did the majority of the people who were uneducated read the Bible prior to 1500 and even to this day?


(6) What is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim 3:15)?


(7) What books of the Bible did Jesus write?


(8) Where in the Bible does Jesus command the Apostles to write?


(9) How do you know that your interpretation of the Bible is correct?


(10) How did the Bible know what books to include under its cover?

The only logical conclusion is that the Bible as our only guide is unbiblical!! The Church came first!!"

Answer 2

The bible is only a tool of the church. But herein lies the problem. Show me a denomination that approximates the Church,as Founded on the Rock of Peter? Show me the where the Catholic church has stayed true to the commune concept that the early church used to propagate itself prior to the council of Nicaea? The Early Churches had letters that were copied and kept as scrolls, and shared among the congregations, just like the Torah prior to the church age
so who teaches the people to understand the truth? Is it the Priest, or the eternal word of the LORD? Did not Christ say "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. And none come by the Father except by Me?" So take the Church if you want to stay in the Congregation of Man and the downfall that will bring. Or be like the Noble Bareans and study the scriptures to find what is Truth.

Answer 3

I think this says the church of the Living God. Not a particular sect or religion. Paul in his teachings had the very problem with this, one thought they was better than the other. The church of the Sardis thought they was better than Corinth etc. Each of the early churches was established in different areas of Turkey, Greece and Rome. I believe without the Word of Jesus Christ this question would not be asked. The Word came long before the church. He came to establish a people that would love and honor Him. He wanted a people to come to Him willingly. As long as the religions argue and bicker amongst themselves Satan has nothing to worry about. They are using their own religious practices to condemn when it is the same Lord and Jesus that we all love and follow. If Christians the world over would all come to an agreement about who they love this all would end. Imagine a world where all Christians came together in faith and worship for the Lord no matter the religion. If religion could be placed aside and faith and love be picked up, what do you think would happen?

Answer 4

Christ came to establish the Church. The reference you are showing is a direct indiction of the Church.

But my 1 Tim 3:15 reads, " but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

More about behavior. ;) Have a good day.

Answer 5

Define your terms. By the church I mean the body of believers, whether 2 or 3 or more joined together in the Spirit. I do not understand it to be a building or a religion or sect of Christians. Christ's final prayer was that we all would be one as He and the Father are one, in the Holy Spirit. The true-hearted believers are the church. The Torah or Old Testament came first. Then Jesus Came. Then the New Testament came.

Answer 6

The Church was founded first, but people wouldn't know anything about the Church if it weren't for the Bible.

6 of 1 and 1/2 dozen of the other.

Answer 7

Before the old testament we had Moses and the Levitical priesthood, which prefigured the new covenant church.

Before the new testament, we had the church, which likely prefigures the worship system that will exist in the next age.

The church was given the authority directly by Jesus, to baptize, to teach, to bind and loose, to conduct the eternal sacrifice, and to administer all the other sacraments. It's in the Bible.

Jesus never commanded anyone to write a single line of scripture, nor did Jesus leave behind any writings of his own.

Where is the written, God given authority to be found, for Bible only Christians?

Answer 8

The Torah on which the bible is founded came first. The Church came into being only after Christs death and Resurrection.

15 but if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how men ought to behave themselves in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

The truth is the word of God, the Church (should be well versed in the word) is the piller of Christ on which the word sits.

Answer 9

The church was first and then the Bible. Church always refers to God's people.

Adam and Eve and the generations after did not have the Bible till later down after the flood and they still didn't have the complete Bible but only scrolls from the prophets of old which is apart of our complete Bible now.

All led to Christ and after Christ we get the complete Bible.

Answer 10

The Curch itself established the Bible (or at least the NT), so it seems a little silly to place all your faith in the book and the the authority behind it.

If I were a Christian, which I am not, my problem would not be with the Catholic extra-biblical church policies that were not based on Tradition (with the capital "T"), such as the requirement that the clergy remain celibate.