Should we withdraw state funding from religious segregated schools & compel children to attend secular school?

Question

Here in the UK we have religiously segregated schools which are supported in part by public money - e.g. CofE schools, RC schools and now (I believe) even Muslim schools.

Should we work towards a situation in which the state only funds secular schools, and the law requires children to attend one of those schools? That doesn't mean that we should make private religiously segregated schools illegal, but that all children should have the same standard of secular education, and that any attendance at religious school would have to be out of normal school hours. If not, why not?

I think we will be failing our children and creating conditions for a more divided, intolerant society if we don't work towards this goal. We *must* learn the lessons of places like Northern Ireland.

Melissa T.: I'm not saying that we should stop people from teaching their children religion, if they feel that way inclined, but that the state shouldn't have any part of it.

Answer 1

I could not agree more.

The Labour government is promoting ethnic and religious division by supporting these religious schools. The children studying at these schools are not exposed to people with differing belief systems during their formative years. How on earth does this contribute to the governments stated aims of creating a tolerant, harmonious, multi-ethnic society?

And you are right, the government is funding Muslim-only schools (while at the same time publicly pronouncing that British muslims must integrate more with mainstream society!).

The policy is counterproductive, divisive and destructive. The role of schooling is education, not indoctrination, and religion in schools should simply encourage understanding by teaching about all religions without promoting any.

Answer 2

Now you see why we Americans force Coca Cola and McDonald's on the rest of the world- we insidiously spread our political philosophy in the secret ingredients and the special sauces.
I'd like to see the world work towards government secularization. As you say, each person and family and community should feel free to believe and teach whichever religion they want or no religion at all. I just don't think it's a good idea to have the government funding it. In part because the government would be better as a referee to see that no side hurts or infringes on the others. By not funding any, the government maintains neutrality. When the government is seen funding religions it gets involved in taking religious stands and this is bad for both government and religion. It's particularly bad when there's an official government religion.
But I can't see how you guys could change things. You have an official intertwining of religion and government with the government and the CofE intermixed in a way that the US Constitution specifically prevents. To make schools secular would go against a lot of law and tradition. But it's a worthy goal.

Answer 3

On balance, no.

Interestingly, your proposal already operates, to some extent, in my country. A child may enrol in a state-funded secular school; any attendance at a 'religious school' cannot overlap with this child's secular school timetable. The child also has the option of enrolling exclusively at the religious school.

The religious schools here receive no state funding at all, and must rely on private benefactors to maintain their existence.

The paradox is that, in practice, I think this contributes to, rather than overcoming, the problems of division and intolerance.

It is very easy to twist the logic of:

'The government financially supports the goal of Religions A, B, and C living and learning together in a non-religiously divided society - and Religions B and C are democratically free to pursue what they want, at their own expense'.....

.....into the far more insidious shorthand form of:

'The government won't pay for a crucial part of your education BECAUSE YOU BELONG TO RELIGIONS B AND C.'

This has become a political hand grenade here.

Sadly, there's much evidence that the kids themselves are being indoctrinated to think in the same way: they are a persecuted minority, not worthy of the majority's support (and certainly no part of the majority's money.)

It's certainly the message that the fundraisers for the minority religious schools carry into their communities, along with their donation boxes: "Those bastards aren't going to do anything for us, so we have to help ourselves."

Can you hear division and intolerance?

I can.

"THOSE bastards aren't going to do anything for US, so WE have to help OURSELVES."

I fully understand what your motivations are, and I can't pretend to understand the situation in the UK, as I don't live there.

But I can't imagine Catholics or Muslims reacting positively to the proposal - not if it becomes as politicised as it is here.

Answer 4

My understanding is that in the States the only way for a religious school (or any private school for that matter) to get government funding is through grants of specific programs or research.

I don't think you should force kids to go to public schools, but perhaps make private, or religious schools live up to some educational standards to qualify for government funding.

Answer 5

I don't believe state funds are being used for religious private schools (U.S.). Privatization of the public school system, however, may produce better run schools in the long run.Public schools are failing our kids here in the U.S. in every way.
It's the personal choice of the parents/guardian as to where their child will attend school. Some parents even opt to homeschool which is fine with me. You propose we legislate this as well?
Public schools have the responsiblity to teach children general curriculum including such things as reading, writing, math, science, etc. Parents choose to send their kids to religious private schools so tht they are taught morality and spirituality along with the regular curriculum. You're asking for too much regulation. The measure as to whether a school is successful or not should be standardized tests, not your opinion. Do you even have kids?

Answer 6

Yes we should (well, I'm speaking about the states, but I'm sure it could apply to the UK). If the government put more money into the public schools, then parents wouldn't feel like they have to go to a private school to get their kids a safe, decent education. Then all that would remain are the people that want their kids brought up in that faith environment, so they could pay for that themselves.

Answer 7

I think it would be great for the state not fund religious schools. That way they can't tell them what to teach and not teach e.g. evolution. But why would children be required to attend one of those secular schools? Isn't it up to the parents as to where their children attend school? I think that's a very Communist idea.

Answer 8

As a general rule in the US you get a better education at one of the private "religious" schools then you get in Public Education. Also as a general rule they are not paid for by the Government. Also I attended a Catholic School that did have non-Christian students (for a better education). I am not Christian and overall I would say the education I received was excellent.

Answer 9

I believe that it should be done like here in America. If you want a private school, it should be paid for out of your own funds. There should be no help from the government at all to fund religious schools. If you want to send your child to a "private" school, it is out of your own pocket--or in part by the religious institution's church itself, the public school system and everything that comes with it is paid directly from tax dollars.
If children who go to public school have a family with religious conviction who feels they also need a supplement religious education, it is done outside normal school hours and comes out of their pocket (Sunday school).

Answer 10

the same standard of education should be a must, but that standard can be achieved in a religious school as well.

one can also argue that you might be going down a slippery slope with the British government manipulating not just religious schools but any school it likes by threatening to take away its money