This question is for non-Christians...?

Question

What if your wrong? If I'm wrong, you can laugh at me... if your wrong, you go to hell... seems like I get the better end of the deal. Just curious why you risk it?

Answer 1

This is just another version of Pascal’s wager. Pascal's argument is seriously flawed. The religious environment that Pascal lived in was simple. Belief and disbelief only boiled down to two choices: Roman Catholicism and atheism. With a finite choice, his argument would be sound. But on Pascal's own premise that God is infinitely incomprehensible, then in theory, there would be an infinite number of possible theologies about God, all of which are equally probable.

First, let us look at the more obvious possibilities we know of today - possibilities that were either unknown to, or ignored by, Pascal. In the Calvinistic theological doctrine of predestination, it makes no difference what one chooses to believe since, in the final analysis, who actually gets rewarded is an arbitrary choice of God. Furthermore we know of many more gods of many different religions, all of which have different schemes of rewards and punishments. Given that there are more than 2,500 gods known to man , and given Pascal's own assumptions that one cannot comprehend God (or gods), then it follows that, even the best case scenario (i.e. that God exists and that one of the known Gods and theologies happen to be the correct one) the chances of making a successful choice is less than one in 2,500.

Second, Pascal's negative theology does not exclude the possibility that the true God and true theology is not one that is currently known to the world. For instance it is possible to think of a God who rewards, say, only those who purposely step on sidewalk cracks. This sounds absurd, but given the premise that we cannot understand God, this possible theology cannot be dismissed. In such a case, the choice of what God to believe would be irrelevant as one would be rewarded on a premise totally distinct from what one actually believes. Furthermore as many atheist philosophers have pointed out, it is also possible to conceive of a deity who rewards intellectual honesty, a God who rewards atheists with eternal bliss simply because they dared to follow where the evidence leads - that given the available evidence, no God exists! Finally we should also note that given Pascal's premise, it is possible to conceive of a God who is evil and who punishes the good and rewards the evil.

Thus Pascal's call for us not to consider the evidence but to simply believe on prudential grounds fails. As the atheist philosopher, J.L. Mackie wrote:

Once the full range of such possibilities is taken into account, Pascal's argument from comparative expectations falls to the ground. The cultivation of non-rational belief is not even practically reasonable.

This is a call for the rejection of Pascal's wager. A call for all of us to use our reason to decide whether the central claims of Christianity are true or false. It is also a reminder that our choices have a moral dimension that cannot be ignored.

We have seen that many important details about Jesus' life given in the gospels are either false or historically suspect. And we will examine Christian Theology as it is and show that it is a confused irrational system. The balance of evidence, far from being inconclusive, shows that the major teachings and claims of Christianity are false. These parts show that one of the main assumptions of Pascal's wager, that we cannot know the truth or falsity or religious claims and are thus forced to make a wager, is false.

As we have mentioned above, there is a moral dimension to Pascal's wager. We have seen Christianity, in all its forms - Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodox, Protestantism and the Fringe Churches - has inflicted tremendous harm on civilization. When one makes a wager to believe, then one becomes morally responsible for the propagation of suffering that Christianity have been bringing and will continue to bring upon the world.

The Roman Catholic Church continues its horrible track record of bringing misery to its followers and to non-Catholics. It's illogical stance on contraception leads to millions of unwanted pregnancies and, indirectly, to many thousands maternal and infant deaths. It also means that poor third world countries with Catholic majorities, such as the Philippines and Brazil, continue to be burdened by overpopulation, poverty, hunger and disease. It is widely recognized that the opposition of the Catholic Church to the use of condoms in the fight against HIV/AIDS is at least partially responsible for the high rate of new infections in Africa and elsewhere. Its irrational position on this has led to the pronouncement that if a husband infected with HIV/AIDS wants a normal conjugal relationship with his wife, he should do so without a condom. Life takes a back seat to theological nonsense. The moribund structure of the Church also allows for the horrendously high number of sex abuse committed by its clergy on innocent young Catholics. The recently departed pope, John Paul II bears a huge responsibility for this continuing infliction of suffering on humankind.

The Fundamentalist Protestant churches inflict their own brand of horror on the world. With scientific creationism and intelligent design creationism, they are trying to bring science, and the world, back into the dark ages where faith and ignorance reign supreme. The fundamental irrationalism of this branch of Christianity has meant that many of the flock have been fleeced by TV evangelists, some of whose have sexual escapades comparable to the infamous Pope Alexander VI. This irrationalism breeds belief in the efficacy of faith healing to the detriment, and death, of many. Needless to say, fundamentalism breeds intolerance.

The fundamentalists have joined forces with the Catholic Church in their absolutist opposition to abortion, leading the current fundamentalist leaning U.S. government to withhold funds from organizations that aid poor women in third world countries. It has been estimated that almost 5,000 women needlessly die each year due to this misnamed "culture of life" policy.

This moral responsibility for all these also partially falls on the so-called liberal Christians. While this group of Christians may do little harm directly, they provide the raw material (in "lukewarm" believers who are already positively disposed towards Christianity) from which fundamentalism builds itself. Furthermore by putting a "respectable" veneer on religious discourse, they prevent a much needed and long overdue logical, philosophical and scientific demolition of religious claims - since to even attempt to question religion per se is considered politically incorrect. As Sam Harris rightly noted in his book The End of Faith:

Religious moderates are, in a large part, responsible for the religious conflict in our world, because their beliefs provide the context in which scriptural literalism and religious violence can never be adequately opposed.

It is time for liberal Christians to think through their belief system, whether applying words which lose all sense of their normal meaning just to keep some semblance of the religious life, is really worth the harm they indirectly help inflict on the world.

Furthermore amidst all this proven negative effects of Christianity, it is hard to see if there is much good that comes out of it. Some believers have tried to argue that Christians lead healthier lives than non-Christians, but the studies cited have been shown to be seriously flawed. Furthermore it is debatable whether Christianity actually makes a person moral. History seems to tell us otherwise. Many of the popes throughout history had been morally deficient human beings; so too were many of the church fathers, Protestant reformers and some modern evangelical preachers. For they preached intolerance and hate and sometimes actively encouraged the torture and murders of innocent people. Indeed recent sociological studies have shown that there is a negative correlation between religiosity and morality.

The world today, perhaps more than ever, is in need of our undivided, moral and rational, attention. The problems of the world, both natural and man-made are many: famine, floods, the greenhouse effect, the ozone hole and the irreversible extinction of countless species of plants and animals. The only chance the world has is for humankind to understand that this world is all we have, there is no other, no afterlife. Only we can solve the world's problems. The solutions for the problems of the world and for life in general are not to be found in Christianity. Christianity, in fact, is part of the problem.

On both intellectual and moral grounds the only course for a person to take is the rejection of Pascal's wager.

Answer 2

I don't make my decisions out of being afraid. I don't act moral so that I can get a cupcake at the end. I act in an ethical way because it is the best way to live.

In addition, how do you know you're not 'risking' by hooking up with the wrong 'faith?' sily little girl.

Listen to the story you believe - that there is an all powerful God who nonetheless is powerless to let us back into heaven, where he misses us since he drowned almost all of us. Now, this powerless to let us in God realizes that, like his cousin Zeus, he can go to earth and impregnate a maiden! Why not? And the coolest part, God realizes, is that he can let us all back into heaven now! Oh, not because he remembered he is all powerful and can just open the gates. Oh, no, he's realized he can incite humans to murder his magnificent off-spring and then he'll let us slide into heaven on his son's blood.

Just curious- how can you even believe that without cracking up?

You don't get the better end of the deal - you get stuck in immaturity, fear, conformity, and mythology. That's a pretty sad deal, really.

Remember - the god that can be told is not the true god.

Answer 3

That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in awhile. I've heard this argument before. Doesn't that just mean you yourself are just going through the motions out of a fear of some intangible being?

If I am wrong, but I live a good life and am a good person, there is nowhere in the teachings of any religion (besides misguided and overly strict christian religions) that state "if you don't believe in this you go to hell". Misinterpretation has skewed the real message of the bible. Its not whether you are christian, muslim, buddhist, etc. The message is "Be good to eachother and yourself."

If God is forgiving as he supposedly is, and I am wrong, then he will realize that He made me in his image, and that I was made to be an inquistive and skeptical person. He would expect me to draw the conclusions I did...

However, I do not believe in some intangible all-powerful being. And the main reason is because no "proof" I have ever seen makes sense to me. It seems illogical with what we know these days. We no longer need religions to guide us.

I also like the idea that I am in complete control of my life. Noone else has any power over me... except my boss of course.

Answer 4

I don't know what planet you are from, but if you call the bible "absolute truth" you need to look again.

For example:
This planet is round and moves around in space.
In your delusional text it is flat, has corners (Isaiah 11:12) and sits on pillars (I Samuel 2:8).

In my world beetles have six legs instead of the four legs described in (Leviticus 11: 21-23).

In my world rabbits do not chew their cud, which is yet again lied about in (Deuteronomy 14:7).

In my world human sacrifice is wrong, in (Judges 11:30-39) It says that God accepted a human sacrifice -- he may have prevented Isaac's, but he allowed a general to sacrifice his own daughter without even a murmur, the text giving tacit support to the idea that having given his word, the man had to kill his child.

In my world genocide is wrong, but in (Joshua 10:40-42 and I Samuel 15: 2, 3 and 8) your evil god commands it and not only that but after all of the adults have been slaughtered it is permissible for you to take the children as sex slaves (Numbers 31: 17-18).

Christianity is not anything but a hideous evil delusion.

Answer 5

"Religion is human habit, not human nature". I am all for those who choose a religion that helps them be better human beings, but for the most part that is not the case. Such religions teach prejudice, bigotry and far the less within the sect people do worst things to others in the congregation than an outsider. The way you choose to live your life is just that "YOUR CHOICE" anyone else's it is not of your concern. Develop your self as a compassionate, giving and caring human being; accepting others for who they are and there is your true answers to what Christianity teaches.

Answer 6

Here's my question to you: Christianity is a relatively new religion (in terms of world history), what happened to all the people before? Did every person in every civilization before Christianity became a mainstream religion go to hell? How do you explain this?

Oh, and one last question. (although I have many) Why is that Christians preach love and acceptance, but only to those who believe the exact same thing they do? Isn't this just a tad bit hypocritical?

Answer 7

I've already seen what it's like to live my life the way conservative Christians want me to. I almost lost my love and all the things that make me remotely interesting. I was extremely depressed. I have already been through hell. I'm not afraid of Pascal's Wager. I'm afraid of wasting the time I have on Earth.

Answer 8

what if you're wrong?
what if some other religion is correct, and you are doomed for choosing this one?
what if the REAL god is testing us to see if we can see through the BS, and only people who dont believe go to heaven?
what if god is sadistic and sends everyone to hell?

you can play these "what if" games forever. but you have no proof for any of the possibilities.

Even if you are correct, the god you believe in would see through your scam, that the only reason you believe is because you think you will go to heaven if you do, and send you to hell anyway.

Answer 9

I always knew that was the real reason so many people want to be Christians, their just worried about going to hell and scared into believing.

Answer 10

I am sad that you would think sending me to hell implys a better deal for you. I would want nothing to do with any God that condemed anyone to an eternity of torture, and would gladly turn my back on him. I hope you have a great day.

Answer 11

The devil doesn't want to go to hell; he'll have to be "thrown" into the lake of fire.

The devil believes in Christ; he's seen Him.

Knowledge of Christ and a fear of hell a Christian does not make.

Saving Faith is a faith in Christ as savior AND the desire of your life. Salvation is not just a "get out of jail free" card. Anyone who seeks salvation so that they can live like the devil and avoid hell trample's Christ and His death and should seriously re-evaluate their salvation.