For atheists: Can one deny the existence of some item X if one isn't sure what X is?

Question

In other words, isn't the study of theology vitally important for those who are vocal proponents of atheism?

For example, if an atheist doesn't even know what theists are proposing, then aren't arguments against theism proposed by that atheist likely to be Straw Man fallacies?

Answer 1

Not when that so called "study" is riddled with fallacies.

Answer 2

One could say there is no reason for theology at all, if one did not believe in anything that would necessitate a belief system be created around it.

If I don't believe in W first, then I can't even begin to think there is a reason for X.

If one is an atheist for that reason, then theology holds nothing for them. If one is an atheist because they have examined theology and decided it did not hold merit to believe in, then the atheist needs to study the available documents and such on the theology in question. If one is an atheist simply because they choose not to believe, regardless of any evidence (much like others choose TO believe despite no evidence), then that individual will likely keep their thoughts to themselves, just as they derive their reasons for not believing from themselves. (i.e. those people would not be "vocal proponents")

I do, however, feel it is possible to throw out a whole concept because you have found one thing wrong, just as you would throw out a whole loaf of bread because one piece is moldy (at least, most would...?) As that piece is a part of the loaf, if the piece is bad, the loaf is bad. Some atheists find one thing wrong with God religions and that is the end. That makes sense to me. There is no need to learn any more about that religion as that one piece is wrong enough to spoil the whole loaf.

Answer 3

How much study have you put to decern whether bollywoks exist? Obviously, you don't know what a bollywok is, therefore, according to your logic, the study of bollywoks is vitally important to you.

Sorry, but I've heard some definitions of X. I know what theists are proposing. They aren't that hard to understand. Their concepts are fairly simple, even if vague and mostly undefined. Any arguments against theism have to be based on any claims theists make. And pointing out that their claims are ill-defined is a good argument against the claim.

Answer 4

It depends on what that vocal atheist is being vocal about. If s/he is speaking out against a specific religion, then yes it would be good to know their theology. If that person is simply vocal about atheism then theology isn't that important, s/he could just use philosophical arguments as a basis.

Answer 5

Not especially. If one does the proper research one doesn't have to actually be an expert on the subject to debate it. While having schooling in the subject DOES help, it isn't nessecary. Besides, if one truly wishes to be versed in religion, theology doesn't cut it, as most theological classes are taught by those within the religion, and are thus tainted. Now a philosophical or sociological class, taught from a neutral perspective, is a valid course of thought for such debates.

Answer 6

That's generally true, but when an atheist says "i don't believe in god(s)", or "god doesn't exist", that isn't intended as a logical proof of any kind. It's merely a judgement based on the available information and their/our own concept of what is meant by the word 'god'.

If I (me, spamandham) say "god doesn't exist", I'm really referring to the common concept of the monotheistic creator god, and that should be obvious from the context. If I say "gods don't exist", I'm really referring to the general collection of gods people are commonly familiar with, which should also be obvious from the context.

When's the last time you heard an atheist say "nothing with the label 'god' attached to it can exist"? I'd wager 'never'. I suspect you are clever enough to come up with some concept, and attach the word god to it, that is sufficiently vague, or possibly even actual, but that's just a game.

Answer 7

I have a unicorn in my back bedroom. How much do you need to know about the unicorn, (size sex color) before telling me I'm full of ****?
The truth is the one thing I am grateful for from Catholic school is I have a pretty good knowledge of the Bible and the was religious people think and I can hold up my end in an argument. As long as it doesn't get to far into the fine points of pre and post millennial dispensationalism. That is evangelical stuff and it leaves me with a blinding headache.
As Caliban says in the Tempest- "ye have taught me {your} language and my profit is I know how to curse."

Answer 8

One has to be educated in it enough to make an adequate decision for themselves of its validity. One has to have at least some background or study of it in order to not just be hopping on a bandwagon. I took more than my share of classes in religion as a child.. the Baptist church my mother went to had hour long Sunday School classes and I was taken to extra studies during weeknights. I also took comparative religions in college after I stopped being a christian and studied it that way along with the other major world religions. In anything education is vital to know if you believe in it or not.

Answer 9

isn't what you just said why im on here every day asking about the bible and what the bible is saying?

its clear there are two groups in my side of the culture war,

those who will say "there is no god ha ha ha thesits are stupid"

and those like me and there are lots who say things like,

but the bible says in leviticus 11:9-12 that eating shrimp is an abomination, how messed up is that?

what you are next going to ask is, if the bible isn't a good resource for theology because the atheist doesnt believe in god, why use that resource?

simple, someone else believes in god, i dont wish to disconvert people from believing in god, but merely illustrate that in policy making decisions at a school board level or the us senate, that it might not be a good idea to use the bible as the standard,

intelligent design - what intelligent designer? the god of genesis, then equal time for the flying spaghetti monster?

gay marriage - because of leviticus 18:22? see above the word abomination is not a good standard in leviticus since eating shrimp is bad, see also leviticus 25.44 that makes the ownership of slaves permissible,
not a good idea to use the bible as a standard for public policy

A man emailed me saying he was thinking of killing himself, he is a christian. He had heard from one side of Christianity suicide results in hell, and one side that said it resulted in heaven if the person is a believer.

Is that a point for me to email and try to disconvert and point out the problems in the bible? to say no there is no god when you are dead you are dead? to make him be an atheist on an email so he can see the benefits of atheism - living for the now - not dieing?
CERTAINLY NOT,

I emailed him Bible verses that were encouraging, and told him I loved him,
he is still alive and not because of me but because of others im sure who encouraged him,

He now realizes that a church that told him not to have a crucifix and to not have rock and roll might not be right for him.

He is looking for another church.

So, indeed, he is dislodged from "fundamentalist Christianity"; but not disconverted from believe in Jesus.

Use of the Bible for that appropriate purpose is righteous, don't you agree? Kept him alive.

Answer 10

Of course you can deny anything you want. Of course theology is necessary and interesting. Educated decisions are the best ones, as well as life experience. However, how can one prove the power of faith? How can you define coincidence? What is a fallacy if there are two sides to every story? What is a story and what is reality?

Answer 11

Well, if you believe something and want to prove the opposite views untrue, do you not need to know the opposite view? You cannot make a valid argument of disproof without first knowing what you are disproving. So I will answer no to your fallacy question. That is the proper way to effectively debate a subject. Know the otherside.