Why Karate instructors in usa, don't focus at all in grappling and also we are not trained to fail?

Question

When i was in Karate/Kung fu class we learned things lkicks and punches ,and if we practiced some kind of holds or something, it was against imaginary opponents ., sparring was only kicking and punching. But in many instances, fighting ends up in the ground with people wrestling, so why don't instructors use that too?

Also, why karate/kung fu schoools in usa( the ones i've seen) never teach us to fail? In learning techniques, they always teach what to do in a situation, and it ends up with you winning everytime. Like, if it's defending agains a knife attack, you do this and this to come on top, but what do you do if you fail?

Answer 1

Unfortunately, ground techniques and breakfalls are not taught in many karate, kung fu and kickboxing classes simply because the instructors do not know them.

Furthermore, there is a difference between knowing how to do something in your head, and trying actually to do it. To be successful at the latter takes lots of practice.

It's a tall order to become proficient at widely differing techniques and many martial artists just cannot be bothered. They may even know they are lacking in certain areas, but martial artists in the West usually have day jobs, and simply do not have the time to train in a variety of disciplines.

Mixed martial arts schools can offer a balanced set of techniques, and styles of karate like Daidojuku is incorporating grappling and throwing in their arsenal along with kicking and punching. But that's still pretty rare. I myself have dan ranking in both karate and judo, but I've been into martial arts for a long time.

As for self-defence drills, one needs to remember that no technique -- striking, throwing, or grappling -- comes with a guarantee that it will work. There are just too many variables in a real self-defence situation. I can't stand listening to instuctors who tell their students that some technique is "guaranteed to work".

Having said that, you really cannot learn a technique if your partner is giving you full resistance right from the start. This is why you do drills in which you "win" every time. This does not mean, however, that the drills are a reliable indication of how things will go down on the street.

Answer 2

Karate nad Kung-Fu are completely different. If you were at a school that taught both then I would say that neither one was the real art.
Karate doesn't teach how to fall because we never want to end up on the ground. We are taught to control the fight and end it before it gets to the ground. Why teach something that goes against your other training? As for grappling, there is some grappling in Karate and shoul be taught but Karate is mostly about punching, blocking/avoiding, and kicking.

Answer 3

It is not the art, it is the teacher and the school. Your instructors are probably too concerned about money and so they don't want to turn people away. Americans are lazy, and once they realize that something is tough and may take a while they often times quite with an excuse. Teachers know this, some flow with it, others refuse. A good school and teacher will teach you all aspects of self-defense, and allow you to feel both sides of the conflict. When you have a lock applied to your body you will gain a better understanding of how and why a technique works. Your teahers obviously don't teach technique continuation (when one door shuts, many more open). Example: you throw a straight punch, I block and go for an armbar, but you are too strong and are able to muscle your way out of my technique and you bend your arm, however, now that your arm is bent I distract you with a strike to your knees and then put your arm into a shoulder lock while you worry about another low strike. You don't have to practice this stuff at full speed all the time, but you have to at least practice for counter attacks to yours or you will definitely be over-taken. There was a time not too long ago where people trained with crappy mats, and no sparring gear, and they came out fine for the most part. No pain no gain, that's applies to your mind, body, and spirit.

Answer 4

OK karate and kung fu is stand up, except karate can be some ground game. How can u do imaginary holds that is completely unhelpful. Thats like teaching someone to make chocolate cookies with only hand motions.Kung Fu doesnt teach ground game thats why, and Karate sometimes does and sometimes it doesnt, but if they are trying to teach u ground game they dont know what they are talking about or they teach horribly.

They never teach u when your failing because thats hard to do in stand up, and they want u to think that it is a very effective thing your doing in that martial art. This is what pisses me off when they make you do a combo and it makes u win, that is so bs it would never work, probably like 1/523 times it would work. If someone pulls a knife on u, best to get your own weapon or run away. These people mess with your common sense badly, i recomend to find a real place thats not americanized

Answer 5

I didn't see much grappling at all in the video. I watched the first 10 minutes straight. Then spent another 10 minutes going through the remaining 1 hour and 18 minutes worth. I saw a few armbars beginning around 1:22:00, but--really--that was about it. I'm not saying that there's no grappling in karate. The responses you've received confirm that there is. All I'm saying is that I didn't see it in that video. And not to criticize that martial art, but from what I saw (and, again, I spent 20 minutes on that video) its strength certainly is not in grappling.

Answer 6

Most martial arts are sports oriented. Don't think that many instances fighting ends on the ground. Prefer to be the one standing. In most grappling arts, remember that there are rules like no eye gouging, both wear gloves which limit down the impact, its always one on one and there is always the referee. If you suddenly stab the eye of an opponent or kick his groin when he is about to take you down, the fight could be over. Remember too that in actual fighing, you could be up against more than one or with weapons and there's no way you could take them down together at the same time. You cannot even teach and expect an average woman to take a guy down. What is effective to women is definitely effective to men. What is effective against more than one is effective to one. It is ok to fail in sports but never in actual fighting or you're as good as dead. Grappling is good as sports. Real fighting is not sports. I prefer to end a fight in a second or two. God bless.

Answer 7

Karate doesn't teach grappling because that is a different martial art. Just like in Muay Thai we don't use elbows really but Thai boxing does. As for teaching to fail, if you fail in a knife fight your dead. Instead you are taught to counteract your opponent.

Answer 8

People who take Karate and Tae Kwon Do expect to do kicks and flips and all this "Matrix" garbage. Some "business owners" are afraid to teach ground skills because of fear of losing $$$. In the real world fights end up on the ground. If your class doesn't teach it, find another. I suggest Jiujitsu.

Answer 9

just because your instructors did that doesn't mean that all are like that maybe you should go out more and look for other school and different styles.
there are many school out there that area rip off and few that teach the true principles of martial arts and effective techniques but they are out there you just need to look for it.
don;t judge all because of one or two keep looking.
good luck and sorry that you've had crappy instructor hope they didn't ruin it for you, martial arts rock, it's the instructors that don't
good luck!

Answer 10

its salesmanship. you are not trained to fall because it doesn't look as cool as punching and kicking. In the dojo i trained at before i had to leave that town, ukemiwaza were the first thing new students learned. that was necesary, as we spent a lot of time throwing each other around. it got rid of the potential students who were only interested in doing flashy stuff. we didn't want them anyway.