An in depth question about religion, I dont want pity, prayers or abuse so can people at least be civil?

Question

I am a being, created with the ability to use intelligence, I have been given the faculties to question and examine evidence, yet for some reason this faculty is inferior to blind faith? How can I know what I shouldnt question?

There are numerous belief systems in the world, they seem mostly to be in conflict or at the very least mutually exclusive. They cant ALL be right, & if I choose the wrong one I am evil. How can I know which to choose? Is it purely upbringing that decides this? Is it fair to judge it?

People from belief systems seem to believe in an 'objective good'. Firstly, how is there any basis for this outside of their own dogma & their own inclination of what they feel is right? Very few people do evil deliberately, most feel they are doing the right thing but 'the majority' define them as evil. Is this a basis for deciding good/evil?

I feel abandoned in the world by a creator, with no clear help or guidance to get things 'right'. How is it my fault if I dont?

I appreciate the answers, although some people obviously felt offended. Perhaps they could have used that as a basis for answering my 'where should my faculties for questioning no be used to question.' Instead they just got snipy, more fool them.

I should also point out 2 things. I have both an A level and a 2:1 BA in Philosophy, hence my questionning mind. I found myself VERY limited by the word count limit for the question so unfortuantely I was limited on the depth I could go for asking.,

Secondly, yes, I am an athiest. If you want to use my approach go ahead, but be aware that you argue it from your own approach and so are just as guilty as me. The difference is that if I heard something here or elsewhere that I felt was an answer I would adapt to respond to it and assimilate it into me., How many people can say that?

Lastly, I tried to sound respectful and civil in my question & not target any specifric group for flack. Apologies to those of you who felt I was out of line

Answer 1

Try this book
http://www.pbc.org/library/series/10307
Listen to these sermons!
http://twft.com/?page=C2000

Romans would be a good place to start!
You will then get it right!

Answer 2

Okay; intense for this time of the morning...

Firstly, I think we should question. Jesus was frequently asking his disciples to look around them and question what they saw. He asked for their faith in him, but he didn't ask them to stop questioning. It's modern religions that requires blind faith by their followers. We all know that modern religions were partly founded as a way of keeping the population in check. For example, our laws are based on the ten commandments, and a couple of hundred years ago you were fined by your parish if you didn't attend church on a Sunday! Organised religion often offers no outlet for questioning because it's easier to control people. I'm a Christian and even I'm not so blind I can't see that!!

Right then, second point. I'm not going to answer it directly, but offer you a theory; the mountain theory. All religions are are mountian. At the top of the mountain is God, Allah, Buddha or whatever who call your deity. There are many many different paths up the mountain. Each path is different, some are easier than others, some have more obstacles than others, but none are more right or are wrong. At the end of your journey all paths lead to the same place. It not the path you choose that makes the differnce, but reaching the top.

I think faith can guide people as to what is "right" or "wrong", but many take it to extremes. I believe that as long as my actions don't adverseley effect someone else then they can't be evil. If I hurt myself that's my own problem. But then again, maybe that's just an easy cop out so that I can live my life they way that I want to...

Okay, well this is the point where I could say that yes it is your fault because if you don't open your heart to God then its your fault you don't allow him to help you find the way. Then again I could say that no-one is this world is ever going to get things perfectly "right", so if we follow that logic then guess we're all going to end up being at fault.

These are my personal views and how I approach my ideas on my faith. I don't feel that anyone else should think exactly they way I do, but in the interests of open discussion and the continued learning about each other I thought I would share.

Answer 3

I dont think you sould be down on yourself about this.

As far as Im concerned all these different religions have three things in common. And that's is they all believe they are right, people with different beliefs are not treated equally, and they can be very restricting.

Choosing the 'wrong' one or none at all, will not make you evil. Some religious people are evil themselves, ie peadophile priests, etc.

I disagree when you say very few do 'evil' deliberatly. Even if they cant see in the heat of the moment usually a person will recognise they have done bad, but brush it aside. Other people's standards of course play a part. For example If you believe in poligamy, you will be seen as 'bad/wrong' in the eyes of many, even though you and your partner(s) all are fine with it.

I think you just need to find inner peace for yourself. I believe we have the power of God within us (Although I am not religious) you do not need to go to a church or mosque to find that inner strength and peace.

You also must overstand that life is about Balance, Equilbrium. There will never be world peace, the same way a persons life will never be problem free. You must accept and love yourself for who you are, good and bad points.
Without the bad how can we ever appreciate the good.

I dont believe there is one God that created all. If he is all seeing he will be well aware of the suffering worldwide. Yet the 'hand of god' seems to not intervene, help, save etc. So I do not fear God.

Im not sure if any of this helps. All I can say is go with what you feel is right.
That is how I play it. My instincts are usually spot on, on a day to day basis. So now I trust my gut feelings.
I refuse to believe something just because someone says it is correct.
If I have questions I do my best to find answers, that way I build my own opinion.
Although I do not fit in the box, I am happy with who I am. And I do not care how others view me anymore.

Peace n Infinite Luv 2 ya x

Answer 4

Superb question... an agnostic aethiest inna making.
Cant advise you as to which religion is true. I have a sneaky feeling that ALL organised religion is based on greed and lies to keep the commoner in his or her place. The lies spread by christians get bigger and more complex by the year, in the face of what little evidence they claim. Muslims are led by, and I use the word advisadly, nutters. No two ways about it. Kill the infidell anybody?? Hindu's tend towards the peacefull but are just as prone to sticking a bicycle through their face, so there is the mad element there too. Buddists? Generally speaking, the buddists I have met have been happy and tolerent people that lean very heavily towards a philosophy which actually celebrates the difference between people... and they reckon you get a few goes at it (life) to get really good at it too. Which is nice. And you never get a buddist sitting on the end of a dying mans bed telling him he aint going to "heaven" with all this stuff, and the devil is waiting for a rich man... bloody christians.
So to sumise;
I have little more idea than you or the majority of people, but I do know that , pound for pound, you would be better joining the mafia than a christian sect. The intolerence they spout is bad for the world and should be silenced. Becoming a muslim is a step back to the stone age and should be avoided unless you want a fatwa on your a55. And buddism is lovely but you cant help but feel it a little.... pointless. The world IS beautiful and wonderous and you dont need a dude in a daft hat to tell you why.
My advice;
Love everybody but dont stand for preachers of any sort. They ALLWAYS have something to hide and NEVER practice what they preach.
Be aware of the differences but dont let them rule your head. Enjoy them. dont pander to them.
Extreme views get extreme reviews. Dont be dragged into a fight to prove the un-proveable... cant be done.
Look after the people that matter to you.
Love every minute of the ride because its too short to ask where you're going..
Peace and love and enlightenment to you and good luck.
Remember this is just MY opinion and as such isnt worth a bloody thing. Same as everybody elses.

Answer 5

You have been given guidance and in it is inside of you. You have a conscience and that should guide you. Yes some people do the wrong things but with good intentions but intentions do need to be considered when judging an action. But there are also people that talk themselves into believing something is right even though they know it is wrong. It doesn't matter what other people think of your actions or anyone else's the person performing the actions is the one that knows why they did it and other people can never truly understand. But if we are speaking in terms of the the Almighty,the Almighty would know why you are doing what you are doing otherwise it isn't the Almighty. As far as finding the truth you have been given an intellect and regardless of what others say faith is not in opposition to intellectual curiosity. Many religions require the followers to ponder the mysteries of this world in order to strengthen their belief in God. I won't preach and specific religion to you here. But I will say this I was an Atheist at one point in my life and my beliefs now came from constant thought and research it wasn't blind faith that lead me to believe it was the pursuit of knowledge.

Answer 6

> How can I know what I shouldnt question?

You should question everything.

But you should also know that you cant understand all of the answers with your questioning mind.

> How can I know which to choose?

Your intellect certainly will not guide you to fullfilling your heart.

> Is it purely upbringing that decides this?

No, there is also a natural inclination in some to seek for answers that arent readily apparent. Oftentimes the intial answers offered by society, religion and speculation do not suffice. So we keep seeking.

> Is it fair to judge it?

To Judge What?

Some things are obviously true, some are obviously false.

Some things are not so obvious.

> People from belief systems seem to believe in an 'objective good'. Firstly, how is there any basis for this outside of their own dogma & their own inclination of what they feel is right?

Is there any scientific evidence for the interconectedness of all things?

Belief systems do not determine ones concience. Neither does social conditioning.

Some people would ask for evidence of a concience, but i would tell them they are simply not being honest.

> Very few people do evil deliberately, most feel they are doing the right thing but 'the majority' define them as evil. Is this a basis for deciding good/evil?

A moral code must suffice, until we are able to find a morality which spontaniously arises out of our recognition of the inseperable unity of all things.

How many people feel that they cannot find happiness until everyone does?

Willfully inducing suffering in another being is evil, especially if the intentions behind it were selfish.

Maybe there is a realm of intentions? Where beneavolent or maleavolent intetions have resultant consequences upon the world and ourselves?

Being willfully destructive towards the happiness and fullfilment of others mean that one is essentially endorsing the willful destruction of ones own happiness and fulfillment.

Good and evil as moral judgements are simply relative quantifications which can be bent to the use of anyone seeking justification.

Without honesty, how can there be a baisis of deciding good/evil?

> I feel abandoned in the world by a creator, with no clear help or guidance to get things 'right'. How is it my fault if I dont?

Well, you feel that you have a creator.

Maybe, even if there is a "Divine Principle" which exists objectively, beyond our ideas or opinions, maybe in this world you have created yourself, in a way that you cannot now understand?

If this is true, then your existence in this world is the result of your own action, and therefore your own responsibility.

If you have a choice, ie free will, then you can exercise that choice in such a way as to seek the understanding which will allow you to choose in such a way so as to aliviate your existential difficulties?

Maybe the only way to find the answers to questions of God and religion are to to seek the source of these things yourself?

The answers in the mind will never satisfy, one way or the other, not if you really want to know.

So proving or disproving things mentally will never suffice, not until you have the actual expereince to confirm the deeper feeling which leads you to seek in the first place.

But if you feel you have a creator, then perhaps you feel that you may also have faculties for proving/disproving things which exist beyond your rational mind, which cannot be proved/disproved rationally?

Not that spirituality need be irrational, its simply that not everything can be understood in terms of rationality.

This is where we get into faith.

But if you have faith, why do you need to beleive anything?

Why not simply have faith that what is true, is true, and that if you look for it you will find it?

It sounds simple. Maybe God is too simple to understand?

Good Luck,
and Godspeed ;-)

Answer 7

I have no idea what belief system you were brought up in, it doesn't matter.

I use my church as a centre/location where I can peacefully readjust my inner feelings every week or so...but I do not blindly follow, nor believe, everything that is preached or that is contained in the Holy Book.

Don't trouble yourself worrying about why you don't believe blindly, every faith has it's equivalent of leaders and individuals who themselves have gone through the period of doubt before coming out the other end stronger.

Settle for your faith being there when you need it and it providing just a place to meet others perhaps, the rest will follow if you need it.

Try to be positive if even this small step helps and don't envy those whole follow blindly or who are too dogmatic. It is better to have your eyes and mind open!

May your God be with you.

Answer 8

There are some universal truths out there that are pretty much constant across all cultures. Murder is wrong. Stealing is wrong. Rape is wrong. etc.
These values are outlined in international law. Severe violators of this law are punished for 'crimes against humanity'.

There is nothing you shouldn't question, draw your own conclusions and stick to them until someone can present a logical argument that's better.

I think a good definition for evil is quantity of harm done to others (usually for personal gain, but sometimes out of a misguided sense of loyalty). The more harm you do to another, the more evil your act. Conversely, good actions are those that help others. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. Here's what's interesting... if you can do something that benefits yourself but does not harm anyone, _it's NOT evil_. There's nothing wrong with enjoying an ice cream cone on a hot day because YOU want to, but stealing it out of a kid's hand is wrong.

The fact that you have a choice of belief systems speaks volumes about the world we live in. Human equality, freedom of expression and to choose your religion (or no religion), and not be persecuted for it. These are the things that make a good world. You KNOW the difference between right and wrong. If you consistently try do the right thing, nobody can fault you for it.., they can fault your error in judgement or execution, but they can't fault you for trying to do the right thing. As long as you acknowledge your mistakes harmed another person, you can learn from them and seek constant improvment in yourself.

Answer 9

What exactly is your question here? Why is it your fault that you can't see Truth? Because you set your mind the way it is. You have free will and control over your own destiny so if you can't see truth then it is because of your own blinders. What is your motivation here? Are you another just petty athiest that wants to stir trouble amongst people who have blind faith in something? Or are you someone who honestly believes there may be some kind of Creator, but just doesn't know who HE is? If it is the former, then I say shame on you for your underhanded trickery. If it is the latter then I say what you are searching for is Truth, and Truth cannot be told. One can only come about Truth by two ways, through revelation and through realization. Obviously, so far, God hasn't come to your door saying "Here are the secrets to the universe", and it is not something you should expect, so you should be striving to realize the Truth for yourself because no man can tell it to you but God Himself. It sounds to me like you've got some kind of "it's not fair" feelings about the universe and the way it is. But that is just the way the cookie crumbles, you deal with whatever lot you got in life. It may not sound fair to us, but if there is a perfect Creator, then it must be fair even if it seems it isn't, because He is perfect and that's the way He made things. Who are we, afterall, to judge what is fair? Haven't we continued to screwed up the earth for millenia and millenia with our human "judgements". For me personally, it just seems logical that there would be an Infinite Creator. What else would cause the big bang that supposedly came from "nothingness"? Why can a scientist believe in the infinity of the universe or the infinity of numbers without proof and still not believe in an infinite being? What's the difference? "Let there be light" sounds like a "big bang" to me. So if there is a Creator, and we have constantly proven, and admit, that as human beings we aren't perfect, then wouldn't we need saving from our unceasing destructive ways? So from where I come from, I have examined all of the worlds faiths and beliefs, and Christianity just seems like the most logical to me. But what I have seen doesn't matter because I am a human being, which means you can't trust my words because I am not perfect. Just keep searching, Truth seeking is a mission one must go at alone.

*EDIT* RESPONSE TO ASKERS EDIT
I'm not guilty, I had no approach, remember I even said this:
"But what I have seen doesn't matter because I am a human being, which means you can't trust my words because I am not perfect."
But, you are guilty of being an underhanded douche.

Answer 10

Very well thought out and now we find ourselves in a seemingly damned if I do damned if I don't situation. If you chose what as you put it seems to be the wisest decision or at least most logical, unfortunately is the lonely road. So like the person with the wager question, we cannot loose if we choose a higher power. It's a win , win situation. I to believe most people are led to do the right thing, except where money is involved. Then without a clear under standing that you will answer for actions of who you are when no one is watching. It is your choice my friend.

Answer 11

You need to use that intelligent brain to question human need for religion in the first place.
All major religions are in some way corrupt, such large organisations, with the ability to tell people how to live their lives, are bound to attract power hungry, deviant individuals. That is not to say that I don't respect people who choose to follow a faith system, I just know why they are often called sheep!
All religions are based on ethical guidelines, which is a good thing, but when our failure to be pure in those ethics is used as a whip to punish us it becomes a power trip for those in control of the masses.
I think human kind uses 'god' as a substitute parent, to run to for guidance when they think they have done wrong. To stroke our hair and tell us that it will be OK (all will be forgiven) instead of telling us to have some self respect and stand up for our own experience.
We all share this little space in time and it makes sense to live by a code of practise which bears this in mind, not for the greater good and not to please some abstract higher life form but because it makes life so much easier and more pleasant. You don't really need someone to tell you that you are getting it right if you have self belief and respect.