And the magical aspects have been played down for centuries, even since Paul/Saul? Performing rituals to ensure salvation still smacks of magic to me. what do you think?
2006-08-02 11:39:05 · 10 answers · asked by Anonymous in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
please research the writings of Paul, who was the father of the Christian religion
2006-08-02 11:49:47 · update #1
I am implying nothing, just sharing what I have learned.
2006-08-02 11:51:45 · update #2
Of course they were originally considered magick. And not only that, but if there was no magick to any religion, "The washing away of sins," "Being Saved..." noone would have picked them up to make them what they are today. Most of these religions have lost their magick by now, because of the people's disbelief and the misinformation running amok. The magickal aspects to Christianity have been played down ever since the Roman Catholic Church wasn't good enough for Christians; they made new paths to Christianity, then had the audacity to tell the Catholics that they are going to Hell for 'idolizing' Mother Mary. I believe this is the whole reason behind the de-magick-ization of Christianity- the female aspect, and putting men in front of women, or vice-versa: We have duality in this world, so it would make sense that there should be that same duality to religion. *shaking my head.*
When will people finally recognize that all religions are valid paths to the divine, and that magick is real and not wrong? I believe it was Peter who was pagan before becoming an apostle, and he went on to form the Roman Catholic dogma; he knew that to sell religion to the people, it has to be relative to the lives these people lead- so he put a pagan spin on it, and had his pagan flock converted. But when you perform any ritual, it should not be intended for 'salvation,' but worship. We are the ones who decide whether or not we save ourselves. A sinner who knows he does wrong, and keeps doing this same wrong after being 'forgiven' the first time- does this make any sense to anyone? Just because you are 'saved' doesn't mean that you can keep repeating the same misdeeds. *Still shaking my head.*
I think everyone needs to quit arguing about faith and actually have some. Because if these people had any faith at all in the world, they would be praying instead of ridiculing other's beliefs. I have plenty- this is why I just pray, to all the deities I hold dear; who listen to every beat of my heart and know the goodness that flows from me- Because I know that when you bring ridicule to anyone about their faith, you are in for one hell of a fight. Why doesn't everyone else SEE this? Wars are raging right now, and why? Dogma vs. Dogma. No one is right. Everyone believes they are right; so does this make killing one of God's creations any less WRONG? Maybe... not. No misdeed is performed without Karma's eyes seeing it... On the other side of the veil, we all see clearly. What humans are doing today is an atrocity. Maybe it will take the death of your body to see it, but it is, and we will all know one day. Eternal life isn't just for Christians:)
Blessed Be.
2006-08-02 12:31:20 · answer #1 · answered by Lauralanthalasa 3 · 10⤊ 3⤋
Holy Communion. . .probably yes. . .Baptism. . .not really.
Baptism is not so much a cleansing (although this is, in effect, what water does) but a "marking" as "Christ's own". . .and its immediate orgins at the start of the Common Era was a literal reinactment of "crossing the River Jordan" in the rite set forth by John the Baptist. . .in other words, start over. . .cross the River Jordan literally. . .and re-enter the Promised Land. . .this time. . .differently!
Holy Communion is more involved. . .yes, it appeals to the "magic mindset" (which all of us have). . .in order to create a powerful community belief. . .and, yes, to compete (and attract/absorb) the pagan groups of the day. . .but a number of Christian traditions have since rejected the notion of a literal Body and Blood of Christ. . .with a focus, instead, on the Body representing "life" and Blood representing "inspiration" of Jesus the Christ. . .so that Holy Communion or The Lord's Supper is NOT the literal eating and drinking of a g-d in order to commune with him/her (referred by some as "Christian cannibalism") but, instead, a personal commitment to living the life (and ideals) of Christ in the form of a Roman style sacrament (i.e., visible symbol to show commitment to yourself and to others).
Put another way, taking a well known ritual. . .albeit steeped in magical and pagan traditions. . .and lifting it up with a different, perhaps more acceptable meaning (for the modern thinking person). . .although, at some point in between 2,000 years of history, it had its beneficial effect for at least some ancient cultures, such as the Celts and possibly Vikings, who amazingly stopped their ritualistic killings in a relatively short period of time (after the introduction of Christianity) relying on the Great Thanksgiving alone for faith.
Each age. . .and person. . .has the privilege to make these two fundamental sacraments what he or she will. . .despite their respective histories.
Hope this helps!
2006-08-02 19:02:37 · answer #2 · answered by MIKEBAYAREA 3 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Magic? No, only if one considers the Bible a magic book. No, actually, water baptism, which is in the Bible, represents the washing away of our sins. Then there is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, where one is baptized into the death of Christ so that ones sinful nature dies with on the cross, and they live IN Christ's resurrection. Communion is to remind us of how Christ's body (represented by bread) was broken, and His blood (usually represented by wine or grape juice) was shed. Hope this helps, God bless!
2006-08-02 18:50:28 · answer #3 · answered by eefen 4 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Christianity still has its magic. You say the sinner's prayer, with the pastor's hand on your shoulder, and poof, - - you're saved! It's the words, the gestures, its what you want to experience.
But if you study the early Christians you'll find that they had words of consecration that made the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus. Does that sound like magic?
Then again, maybe religion has to have an element of magic and who's to say that God doesn't use his sacraments as instruments to extend grace to believers.
2006-08-02 18:48:47 · answer #4 · answered by Dr. D 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
yeah, what is your source?
Regardless of how people label it, the thing is that the sacraments do not ensure salvation, they are the fulfillent of it. There's nobody and nothing that will save us, except for the Son of God, Jesus Christ. (saviour - that's what 'Christ' means... hint, hint)
The 'magic' of it is the meaning that it conveys... Not so obvious? It's got nothing to do with occultism if that's what you're implying.
2006-08-02 18:48:19 · answer #5 · answered by Pivoine 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Please show me Bible verse that illustrates what you are talking about!
I have read the Bible from cover to cover many times and I have never read that baptism or communion were considered magic! I bet no other Christian has either!
2006-08-02 18:50:58 · answer #6 · answered by zoril 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Jesus said that unless we are reborn of "water and spirit" we cannot see the kingdom of God. he ordered his disciples to baptize in the name of the father, son, and holy spirit!! Baptism is a commandment from Jesus Christ!!
2006-08-02 18:50:58 · answer #7 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
No, didn't know that. It will take a little bit more than asking this question though to convince me of it.
2006-08-02 18:45:18 · answer #8 · answered by plebes02 3 · 0⤊ 0⤋
doesn't surprise me, although I have also read that they come from pagan and zoroastrian origins. i don't know to believe you though...sounds like an interesting topic to research.
2006-08-02 18:46:16 · answer #9 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
God bless you for believing non-absolutes.
(wanna hug)
dbd
2006-08-02 18:47:28 · answer #10 · answered by Pashur 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋