For the atheists out there: If the universe came from nowhere?

Question

and has no meaning (i.e., pure chance implies chaos implies no meaning), then why do you (as a group) spend so much time and effort trying to convince other people of the merits of your position?

And a follow-up, why do you (as a group) seem to loathe Christians more than Native American Indians or Satanists?

For the bozo who suggested I read about Cosmology and then come back, I don't need to read more about it (particularly when you smarmly imply an a-ha point, but then don't describe it in any detail). But because you are an obvious genius, please explain your solution to Newton's 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

For the bozo who suggested I read about Cosmology and then come back, I don't need to read more about it (particularly when you smarmly imply an a-ha point, but then don't describe it in any detail). But because you are an obvious genius, please explain your solution to Newton's 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

And for the gentleman who disputed my assumption that atheists believe the universe came from nowhere - where did it come from? And no, it cannot have created itself (that answer is a metaphysical, philosophical and definitional non-starter).

But I enjoy Mike Castaldo's answer: If you'll allow me a rebuttal.

My 1st "false" assumption: I read the Big Bang. And I even understand it. IF the universe came from "somewhere" as you state, what and where is that somewhere? S. Hawking, who I imagine is smarter than you or I on this, hasn't reached a conclusion, so how can you? Ergo, my

2nd "false" assumption: Not an assumption at all. And you again prove my point that the universe came from something. Thank you.

3rd "false" assumption: Let's investigate probability. A group of evolutionary biologists estimates that the odds of us developing at randow border on the billions to one against. Which means the probability of us being created border on 1 to 1. That is 1st semester statistics (thank you, we'll be here all week-end).

4th "false" assumption: The fact that you replied negates your point.

Last "false" assumption: Mike assumes I am a Christian and dies on his own sword.

Answer 1

Excellent point...they are really trying to convince themselves...any other poor excuse is just that...and excuse!

Answer 2

Your first mistake is saying "as a group". Because atheists are not a group. There are no atheist meetings, there is no atheist anti-church, there's no atheist club. I don't get together with other atheists, and if I do it's by (oh the irony) random chance.

As for the second part, (where you also make the mistake of thinking of atheists as a group) how many American Indians (that follow their tribe's beliefs, I presume you mean) and Satanists do you know? How many questions by them do you see here? May as well ask why I don't pay as much attention to scientologists. You don't stick band-aids on someone's skinned knee while they're bleeding out of their ears from a head wound.

Edit: Upon further thought, it occures to me that there probably is an atheist club out there somewhere. Not a large one, though, so don't bother trying to give me crap about that.

Answer 3

First of all, you have a false assumption, on like 5 parts.

1st false assumption: The universe came from nowhere. Read about the Big Bang. It didn't come from 'nowhere'. It came from somewhere.

2nd false assumption: That even if the universe did come from 'nowhere' that this implies chaos. Chaos comes from entropy, and thus comes from having SOMETHING. Ergo, chaos cannot come from nothing.

3rd false assumption: That pure 'chance' equals chaos. It does not. Probability is chance. Probability is actually very ordered, if you ever took a math class beyond Algebra.

4th false assumption: You believe we're trying to force others to think as we do. That's wrong. We're just pointing out the easily seen flaws of YOUR argument, i.e. god exists.

Last false assumption: You believe we loathe you. That's not true. We pity you.

Answer 4

There are many other religious schools of thought that aren't anything alike. For instance, Native Americans and Satanists. I think for most people in the west, the term 'atheist' means 'not-Christian'. And people around here are mostly anti-Christian b/c that is what is around the most. If the majority were Muslim, I'm sure there would be a lot more anti-Q'uran speeches.
Before Xtianity, there were plenty of other groups of civilizations that prospered and had no concept of this single, male deity thought. So, I would say, pay more attention to what merits survive any religiously ordained community and more attention to history!

Answer 5

To whom it may concern,
As for where the universe came from, you're comparing a religion with an apposing religion. Who you should be directing this question is someone in the rhelm of science. (It's the equivlant of comparing creationism, to athiesm, as apposed to evolution.). I dont know where you got the notion that athiests are scientists, but were not. When debating the creation of the universe, Ask Dr. Hawkins. Not an average joe.
As to your follow up, here again. You're misguided. Satanists, Christians, and even athiests are based on beliefs. Native americans are "Native americans". They may have a different belief, But they have different beliefs within their OWN cultures. Presuming that were bigots, is just a slanderous remark on your part. As for us (as a group) loathing christians or satanists, to "us", it's all the same. We dont believe that niether exist. (Or I dont anyways). But as someone had mentioned earlier, I have never had a "satanist" approach me asking me to convert my beliefs to accodimate their ego's. This is a practice that has been imbedded into christianity, which is a habit nobody should have to tolerate.
Personally... I have never once in my life opened the door of discussing my personal beliefs (As do MOST athiests). However, when its shoved down my throat, then yes... I will gladly respond.
P.S. I happen to be a quarter cherokee. I have never had an athiest practice their bigotry at me like you apparently percieve. Get your facts straight please.

Answer 6

Well the origin of the Universe is still being debated. Humans may never know, but it's fun trying to find out. It's interesting you think it's the atheists who are trying to do the convincing when a lot of religions try to push their views down our throats. Atheists usually only try to help by offering the (seemingly) alternate view to the whole God thing. And it's generally the atheists who have an informed view of both sides. The religious amongst us, as a rule, won't listen to, or investigate, any other viewpoint.

Answer 7

First of all, we don't know the origins of the universe. I don't believe "god did it," but that's still unknown. Second of all, no one said that our lives have no meaning. Is the ONLY meaning in your life god? (If you're honest with yourself, the answer is no.) It is perfectly possible to have meaning in your life without some invisible sky-daddy handing it to you.
We try to convince people because religion is a social and political force that affects our lives. If the religious would preach at home and in church, and stop trying to inject their morality and beliefs in to my life, into politics, into science, and into schools, I wouldn't really care. Most atheists wouldn't. Religion is a stumbling block on the way to becoming a more developed world society.
I don't know about the follow-up question, but I loathe the self-righteous, smug, "It doesn't matter what you say or show me, I'm always going to be right. Burn in hell" attitude of most fundies.

Answer 8

First of all, true atheists do not even care about religion, as we see all of them as a farce. Christians are targeted because they impose more than any other religion in the world. Look at one of the main goals of Christianity..."Spread the word of Christ..." Well, that can get quite annoying.

Personally, I couldn't care less if someone is religious or not. If you want to spend your time believing in a god or diety, then by all means, go nuts...just stop trying to convince US that you're position is correct.

Answer 9

First of all, the atheistic position is NOT that the universe came from nowhere.
Creationists believe that there was a time when nothing existed, not atheists.

Now, why don't you try to understand an issue before you post on it? You won't look like such an idiot that way.

Answer 10

Because they don't try to force their religion on you like your doing now. I have never had an Indian come knocking on my door, or I bet an Native American Indians didn't pass a peace pipe asking people to fill it with donations and neither do Satanists

Answer 11

I am an individual and I only speak for myself not anyone else. I have no problem with people who believe in any belief system as it is their choice and we all have a choice. I do not try to convince others that my view is right as I do not like having that done to me with other beliefs. I treat others the way I wish to be treated.