I am an atheist. Can any of you theists change my mind with logical arguments (ie no quoting scripture)?

Question

Honestly, like most scientific people, I'm always willing to change my beliefs in the face of genuine evidence. I'm opening the floor to any and all who can offer up reasonable, TESTABLE, evidence for the existence of a god/supreme being/creator. Please refrain from anecdotes (ie. "my mother, father, sister, saw him"), illogical reasoning (ie. because something complex exists, it had to have been created), personal opinions (ie. because "I" believe... think... feel, etc) and coincidence (ie. a bunch of people prayed and he miraculously got better.)

The evidence must be testable, repeatable, and logical. Please no "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc" thinking, and absolutely do not post scripture, as it will be ignored! (The Bible & other religious books ARE NOT evidence, since there is no way to investigate the authors' research.)

Consider this, your answers, if valid, could potentially change an entire segment of the populations thinking. Good luck!

Answer 1

Your request is far too intellegent to get a good answer here. Happy searching, fellow questioner of the universe. :)

Answer 2

I would like to offer my comments.

Firstly, I assume that you are indeed OPEN to changing your mind. Secondly, since you are willing to change your mind via LOGICAL arguments, why override it by saying that the evidence has also to be testable, which means you are seeking scientific proof of God in the lab. By insisting on it being testable and repeatable you have excluded all other forms of knowing about something. If logical reasoning is important, then the kalam cosmological argument or the teleological argument is very convincing and reasonable. What's so illogical about something complex having a sufficient cause that is greater? Is there a repeatable and observational test for God's existence? I don't believe there is. Neither is there such a test for one's brain thoughts. But is there evidence for God's existence, I believe there is, and overwhemingly so!

Lastly, even if our answers are valid, that does not mean that atheists will convert to theists. For many atheists it is not the reasons of the mind, but the issues of the heart that makes them want to reject God. All the so-called intellectual questions are just there to divert attention from a moral/will issue the atheist has. I may be generalising but I think I may be right on this.

Answer 3

OK , you got me started now!

Firstly, there is no evidence either to prove that God does or doesn't exist and the sooner we accept that, the better.

So it's a 50/50 %er.

We have to look at what we do know:

We live on a planet suspended in a void amid infinity.
Infinity defies rationalism as it has no beginning or end - therefore it cannot be defined. If something cannot be defined, what's to say that it exists at all? If it stops somewhere, what's outside that boundary? How can it just go on forever?

We live in an existance which may actually not be real.

Scientifically, brain scans taken from people during meditation show that "reality" is purely a state of perception and that meditative states are as real as everyday states. Our spiritual experiences are as real as having a cup of coffee or stubbing our toe on the corner of the bed, probably not as painful as the latter though!

Astro physicists discovered energy fields which they nicknamed "fields of potential". They move around the Cosmos settle around stars or Galaxies and collapse them or bring them to life. They behave in a way that suggests they have some kind of consciousness: they move according to no particular set pattern ie. no orbit. and they go back on themselves and even join up and swap places with each other. The Astro Physicists that discovered fields of potential were all scientific types as you would expect but their observation of possible consciousness in these fields started the "have we discovered the finger of God" conversation. They then started to compare Genesis to their scientific findings and were uncomfortable with the "possibility" that maybe Genesis wasn't so far from the truth.

I originally saw this field of potential research discussed on a channel 4 (uk) documentary series called reality on the rocks.

Further research:
Somebody being prayed for has 60% better chance of recovery than somebody who doesn't. Check it out, It's been proven (by an atheist!who said he didn't care about the why's, he was only interested in his patients getting better).

Every culture on earth has some kind of belief in a spirit world. That's a sociological fact.

Human beings are capable of things that completely defy any laws of physics when pushed to it. Lifting a car to free a trapped relative - which should break the persons arms as their bones don't have enough tensile strength to raise that much metal.

Now I can't say that this proves the existance of God because it doesn't. It proves that strange inexplicable things happen in our world and some of them fit in very coincidentally with a long held mystical theory that a spirit world exists. What I would say is that if there is no proof either way, it has to be left to the individual to make their own decision rationally.

If you are truly rational, you can't write off the possibility that God exists and have to accept that we just don't know, it's as likely as it is unlikely.

Bearing in mind what I've said about perceptions of reality in our minds: Try convincing me that you are real. Prove it to me.

The reason I think that it's wrong to keep on arguing about it - People are still dying from things like starvation, famine etc.
I couldn't give a damn whether everybody believes in God or not but from an ethical point of view. It's wrong to allow that kind of suffering to continue.

Regardless of where you may believe the 10 commandments originated from, the world would be a better place if we all obeyed them. Please go ahead, tell me I'm wrong.....and prove it.

It's not such a long time ago (15 years or so) that i was an Atheist. The reason that changed was because I found the idea illogical. Can I change your mind? Probably not, you'll believe what you want to believe, regardless of evidence or logic...you're human after all.

From a purely logical perspective, living by a good ethical religious code is a safe bet. If there is no God it's no loss. If there is, you've done the right thing.

I believe because of the things that happen every day around me.

Answer 4

The scientific evidence is right where you are, in the room that you are sitting in. Someone designed and made each and every item in that room. And someone designed and made this Yahoo Answers website. Someone designed and made the toilet paper that wipes your nose (and the other.....). EVERYTHING YOU SEE WAS DESIGNED AND MADE. EVERYTHING. So behind all of the trillions of products on this planet, are designers and manufacturers. So it is with everything in nature. The universe, the earth, the exotic wildlife, the picturesque landscapes were all designed and manufactured. The wooden chair you've sat upon was not a result of happenstance. Neither was the tree from which it's material came.

P.S. You wanted something that was testable. So commit to track down both the designer and the maufacturer of every item in the room where you are sitting. With patience and hard work, you would probably be at a 90% or better success rate. Now do the same for any flower, tree, shrub, butterfly, eagle or lion. Or planet. Or galaxy. With patience and hard work, but most of all DETERMINATION, you will eventually track down that designer and manufacturer as well. But you don't have to take MY word for it!

Answer 5

Hey I posted something earlier ago about something that might interest you but read it with an open mind. My intentions are to let people know that scientific evidences are limited and that they can't prove that a Jesus existed.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Au4hPb5Fbf6b.FZxJhg0qfzsy6IX?qid=20060730160327AAuPc9e

Oh forget it I am going to post it anyway. This a mix of my own opinions and notes written from a certain book I have.

If you want to believe or not that's your problem but don't get angry at me or feel offended.

Why not everything can be proved scientifically?
Many people think that if something can't be proved scientifically then is completely false and doesn't exist. But this is a myth. The Scientific method is not the only way to prove the validity of something. It everything was like this then you can't prove that Abraham Lincoln was the president of the U.S because you can't repeat this event that belongs to the past. Also you can't prove scientifically that you had a test last Wednesday at AM, because you can't repeat it again in a controlled manner where you can register observations and data. Once it happens it is history. Anything that can't be proved scientifically can be proved by the historical method or the evidential method, which includes oral testimonies, physical testimonies. This method is used in the courts of the whole world to prove evidence and is the only one that is applied in historical events. The way that was proved that The scientific method is limited and you can't proved the events mentioned before.

You can't prove that Napoleon was defeated in Waterloo. The bubonic pest that killed millions of people in XVII century in London, also that Jesus resuscitated from the death because you can't repeat these events in a controlled environment like the scientific method.

A history event like this can be proved with the evidential method, and there is enough evidence that Jesus came here for a a mission

In other words science isn't very reliable to probe a historical events such as the crucifixion or other stories in the Bible, and these kinds of events need another special way to be proved which is the historical method, and we have enough evidence to prove that Jesus was sent by God, like the Bible which is an obvious one. There were many witnesses who saw Jesus and wrote their experiences . The Bible was proved that is was real, and these men really existed. There is also archaeological evidence and places that prove that Jesus existed.

If you want to prove by yourself that God existed and Jesus, you need to do some serious research about the history and arqueology of those times, and you will realize that it was not fiction it was true and part of our history. You have to study a little bit of everything. Theology,History,Arqueology anything except science Lil.

Answer 6

The answer to your question depends upon the sincerity of your willingness to change your beliefs.

If you truly base your beliefs upon logic and testability, then there is no way you could ever ascribe to atheism. Atheists must make the same leap of faith as theists - just in the opposite direction. In this, atheists and theists have much more in common that one might at first assume.

The way I see it, testability, repeatability and logicality are themselves undeniable proof of God's existence. If there were no God, there could be no law of causality. Without causality, there could be no testability, repeatability or logicality. Therefore, asking for testable evidence proving God's existence is as redundant as it is ignorant of the nature of God.

Naturally, this raises the question as to what I mean by 'God'. But to answer this would go beyond the scope of your original question. Let it suffuce to say that if you believe in causality - that is, the necessary relationship between cause and effect - then you believe in something which transcends and conditions that relationship. And that is a very good place to begin your search for God.

Krinvanto Vishwam Aryam

Answer 7

Without quoting scripture, I would like to start by saying that the Bible has been proven to be an accurate account of historical events. Historians agree that Jesus did actually walk the earth. So, if the Bible is an accurate, then those who wrote it would have no reason to lie. I will admit that there are some parts of the Bible that can't be used as historical evidence, but the majority of it can be. So if the authors didn't lie, then the events actually occured, did they not? If these events occured, and the authors did not lie, then they actually happened, and God does exist.

Please check out the link below and respond, I am willing to try to explain further.

Answer 8

God IS an alien: Ironically, god evolved and THEN created mankind. See, the fact than anything exists is proof that nothing has ever been the state of existence, for it is logically impossible for something to come from nothing (remember, nothing means no space, dimension, or possibilty). From this we can posit that something has always existed. That brings us to the usual crossroads in this debate: either god has always existed (and created the universe) or the universe has always existed (independent of a creator). In either case, God is a certainty. Let me explain:

If you argue that the universe has always existed, you must also argue that the universe is infinite, because at no point in the physical universe can something and nothing co-exist (i.e., if the only thing that exists is a basketball, what's all around the basketball? Nothing? Infinite, dimensionless nothing containing a finite something?? Impossible.)

If the universe is infinite and eternal (space and time are one, remember) then presumably it has been doing its thing (whatever it is doing now) for an infinite span of time. now, look what the universe has done in the last 15 billion years? It created you. The universe is pretty predictable and deterministic, so if it created life once, in an infinite span of time how many times did it create life? Did all of those life forms die out, or did some of them evolve way beyond the stage we are at and figure out how to live forever? Maybe we had a race of super scientists that learned, over the span of a trillion years (thats nothing in an infinite span of time, mind you) complete mastery over the universe.

God as a super alien? Not so far fetched is it - using your own precious concept of evolution! It really wouldn't even change our definition of God because in a universe without beginning or end how can one say that the creation of this super alien scientists did not happen an infinity ago?

Just keep two things in mind, if you remember nothing else: the universe is inifinite and infinity is the sum of all possibility. (in other words, in an infinite span of time, all possibilities WILL be realized, including god). So, where are we now on that infinite timeline? Towards the beginning or towards the end? (What that means, basically, is that in an infinite universe, everything that can happen HAS happened.)

Mwa ha ha ha! Bow down to your space brothers! Mwa ha ha...

Answer 9

I recently went through a major upheaval in my belief system. After 23 years as a Christian, I chose to question what I had been taught and thought I believed and go searching for answers. I know that somebody put the earth, and the other celestial bodies, in the sky. And I am certain that the being that put them there, created life at least on this planet. The being who did that, whomever that may be, is my God. That God has a female and a male aspect, as does the rest of the whole system of life. I didn't need a book to tell me that, I didn't hear it from anybody else, I looked inside myself and found it. I bet if you were to honestly look the same place I did, you'll get the same answer. Good luck on your search.

Answer 10

Hello friend,
I am sorry to hear you think you are an atheist.
But given the intelligence displayed in your question, I'd like to ask you a question, and please give it the same respect I gave your question, as I am very serious.

Unless I am wrong, (which is very possible), an atheist is one who says there is no God.

If that is correct, then you, as an atheist must absolutely know everything there is to know in all of the universe.
That means anywhere and everywhere beyond what you can see with your physical eyes and test with your hands and mind, you fully understand.

If by chance however, way out beyond space where you can't see or have never been, there exists a God who created everything, you're in deep trouble.

Because you can not see God or perform a test to validate His reality, you are willing to risk your Eternity based on your own intellect. Friend, that's just not smart.

But I wish you luck in your quest for proof of God. Because one day, your quest will end and you'll find yourself face to face with Him Whom you have denied.

He will remind you of this answer I gave.
It's not too late,
2 Tim 2:7

Answer 11

Hi there....
Ok, I`ve got your point. Actually I`m a scientist to. Especially in the gene scientist. At the first time, I don`t belief in God like u did. But u know what ??? There are a lot of think that human couldn`t think about. Even tough they cold become crazy because over-think and over-loaded the mind.

Can the scientist think the real meaning of the life ???
Yes... in their opinion, because of all organ in our body do them job correctly. But ??? Have u see that the man who lost his heart-beat for 12 hour could totally healty ??? Out of our think right ??? And also, could the scientist sentences where is the soul located ??? No right ???

I`ve make a conclusion that the scientist have only learned about the real-thing.They can not beliefe in the un-real one, beacuse there is no evidence. Actually u r not wrong, but, please learned to receive un-real thing. How about this universe ??? How made it ???Did the universe form coincidentally ??? U know what ??? 1 mm of error may disturbed the orbital of the planetand may cause the armageddon. Someone arrange it.

U can not be so naive, otherwise u can not received the truth. Please belief in God. I`m a mulim and I have found the answer that I have been asking for a long time.

-Belief in your heart-

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