If you are a so-called Christian like GWB claims to be, how can you sanction killing innocent people in wars?

Question

If you are a Christian, as our President George "Dubya" Bush claims to be, how do you justify killing innocent civilians in the name of war as we have done in Iraq and other countries around the globe. Don't get me wrong. I don't like the actions of evil dictators like Sadam or his sons and feel they all should have been brought to justice to answer for their alleged crimes. But in every war in history there are rapes and murders of innocent people and I wonder how George W. reconciles this since the bible says "Thou shalt not kill" and "Love thy neighbor as thyself."

After reading some of the responses to my post I felt it was important to add that peace and victory can absolutely prevail through nonviolence and pacifist means...It is the Godly way. One only has to examine how Martin Luther King Jr.used nonviolent means to galvanize and mobilize the U.S. Civil Rights movement.I don't know what type of intestinal fortitude it took for these marchers to ever fight back -- to be spit on, attacked by dogs, yelled at and otherwise terrorized by malicious racists and carry on a peaceful movement. And guess what. MLK Jr. was savagely murdered-- so we lost a battle -- but we didn't lose the war!!! GWB should take a lesson from Dr. King. Ghandi is another great example.

After reading some of the responses to my post I felt it was important to add that peace and victory can absolutely prevail through nonviolence and pacifist means...It is the Godly way. One only has to examine how Martin Luther King Jr.used nonviolent means to galvanize and mobilize the U.S. Civil Rights movement.I don't know what type of intestinal fortitude it took for these marchers to never fight back -- to be spit on, attacked by dogs, yelled at and otherwise terrorized by malicious racists and carry on a peaceful movement. And guess what. MLK Jr. was savagely murdered-- so we lost a battle -- but we didn't lose the war!!! GWB should take a lesson from Dr. King. Ghandi is another great example.

Answer 1

there are no innocents in war. There is the enemy and then collateral damage

Answer 2

Three facts to consider:
1. The literal translation of scripture is : Thou shall not commit murder. The distinction is made because to kill means to render dead. Murder is the illegal taking of life, understood to mean with malice. Killing for purposes of self defense, capital punishment, and war for just cause are not considered murder.

2. There has never been a war when innocent life was not lost. It's a terrible tragedy, but somehow societies from the beginning of time have determined that the greater good justified the risk to innocent life. On it's face that doesn't seem just or fair but how can you stop it? Revolt against those who make war? Fight a war with those who make war? Or do you just become a pacifist yourself?

3. If you are a pacifist then would you allow some criminal to kill you? Is that what Jesus meant by turn the other cheek? Would you protect those you love against an evil person trying to harm them? If you decide to be a pacifist then should those who otherwise would protect you do nothing? How long would your ethics last if you and your whole society was dead?

I don't know the answer. I don't believe it was ever God's will that people kill each other, but from the time murder first happened people have been defending themselves. And yes God did instruct the Israelites to go to war. If you choose to be against all war because innocent people die in war, I would support you fully and respect your position, but for me I will continue to fight for what I believe is right.
If you want to debate whether this war we are involved in now is just, that's a different matter. But don't use the argument that somehow our president is wrong for ordering our troops to fight because innocent people die unless you are ready to take on the full responsibility of pacifism. I can assure you that no one likes that innocent people die. I truly wish we all could live in peace. The soldier feels the same...that is why he fights, to buy peace and freedom for a time, though it never lasts. You have benefitted from that. Many of us believe that our troops are doing that right now because after considering the situation it was determined that going to war in Iraq would give us and the world the best chance for peace and freedom.

P.S. rape and murder are not a necessary part of war and can not and is not condoned by anyone with a conscience.

P.P.S. After reading your response to the responses you have received, I would like to point out to you that Dr. King achieved nothing until the government (supported by the "armed" military and police) intervened. The reality is if you lie down in front of a tank it will crush you. Pacifism never works without the force of arms protecting it's existence.

Answer 3

Neither GWB - nor any other Christian - "sanctions" the killing of innocent people "in the name of war". First of all, no one does anything "in the name of war". People wage war in the name of something else - like freedom, safety, enforcing 12-year-old UN resolutions, or stopping terrorists who really ARE targeting innocent civilians (some 3000-5000 in NY and Washington, if I remember correctly). When innocent people are killed in war today, it is unintentional and is ALWAYS a tragedy. Unfortunately, innocent people are ALWAYS hurt or killed in war - on both sides. But we do not "target" innocent civilians today,as in wars past. That is why these renegade soldiers ARE being brought to justice. Because we don't DO that. There have been soldiers that have committed atrocities over there, and - in the Christian view - they will ultimately atone for it. But, in this regard, GWB has nothing to "reconcile". HE did not commit the atrocities, and freeing Iraq from a man who tortured 3000 people a day to death, in my opinion, IS loving his neighbor. Was Woodrow Wilson a murderous hypocrite for entering WW I? Is Lincoln rotting in hell today because of the Civil War? By the way, the original Hebrew word for "kill" insinuates "murder". As can be seen throughout the rest of the Bible, there are other kinds of "killing" that do not fall under that category - like self-defense or just wars, for instance. Lastly, if GW cared so little for our soldiers that he would thrust them into a war just to fulfill his "blood-lust", then it sure is strange that he dwarfs all the other current politicians in the frequency with which he makes it a point to personally visit wounded soldiers in the hospital.

Now, my question for YOU is - If you are wondering how a Christian like GW can "justify" going to war, why did you yourself say, "I don't like the actions of evil dictators like Sadam or his sons and feel they all should have been brought to justice to answer for their alleged crimes"? How else are you going to make that happen? The UN already tried to do that without war. It didn't work.

Answer 4

The truth is that you are going to get many answers on this. Some of them will be meant to throw you off (GW is not a Christian, or We don't think that you know the bible), others will be meant to make excusses (Well God had war's so should we, or But the bible says war is okay) The truth is that they don't really know why, other then that it is the way of their world. What most of them wont tell you is that it is them and all the other western religious groups that have started all of these wars, and they use the bible to justify them. What they will also not tell you is that they can only tell you what they have been told, since none of them have met their so called God, and could not begin to understand what they really are about.

Answer 5

Well, have you ever considered the "so called" Muslims we are fighting? They have announced that they are fighting the US and the Western world based on religion, and , correct me if I'm wrong, but they night have killed a few innocent women and children, including believers of their own religion.
Hmmmm. GWB never said that as a Christian and believers in Jesus we must take over Iraq, but these Muslims are certainly making it a religious war. Also, these Muslims are trying to make it out that their religion is one of peace, yet it does nothing but propagate violence and death.
I think you might want to talk to some Muslims and ask why they're doing what they're doing?
By the way, Christains and Muslims have been killing for thousands of years, and if you read the bible, God killed as well.
Don't believe the Muslim propaganda.

Answer 6

many (not all) christian politicians are pro life and pro death penalty at the same time. they covet the life of some and not others. the bible said 'thou shalt not kill'. it didn't say 'thou shalt not kill unless it serves your political purpose'. it's an irreconcilable dichotomy. there is no way you can defend the life of some while casting the lives of others.
i know people die in war but look who the victims are in this war. not the soldiers. not the insurgents. it's civilians. civilian death toll is around 40,000 and climbing every day. that's who this war is hurting. the insurgency may quell but it will never die. it will just regroup and resurface elsewhere. so much death brought upon by a war of choice by someone who allegedly follows 'thou shalt not kill'.

Answer 7

I agree with your point, but I'm gonna try my hand at the other side of this...

Ideally, in the Christian religion, no one wouldn't be Christian. People would've found Jesus and God and accepted them as their saviors. This would then get rid of a lot of anti-Christian feelings in the world.

The justification for killing, in Bush's case, is that we were attacked first and that what could be more right for human rights than saving people from a dictator?

I mean.. a plane can't ascend unless it looks up.

Answer 8

First of all, the commandment is not, "Thou shall not kill", It's, "Thou shall not murder". That word in the Hebrew was mistranslated in the King James translation as it is in many modern translations. In the same book in the Bible many crimes were listed that God said the punishment for was death.

Just because a person is a Christian does not mean that the person no longer has the right to self defence. By the same token, a country has the same right to self defence when it is attacked. The USA declared war on Japan after they attacked Pearl Harber on Dec 7th, 1941. Should we have just let Japan
take over all of the islands in the Pacific and the western USA
without a fight?

We were attacked by Muslim terrorists 9/11. They killed more of our people than the Japanese on Dec. 7th! These Muslim Terrorists declared war on us. These are state sponsored terrorist groups, sponsored primarily by Afganistan, Iraq, Iran, and Syria but all the Arab nations are in sympathy with them.

That is why, after 9/11, that President Bush said that we would not only go after the terrorist groups, but also the nations that support and harbor them. That is why we had to go into Afganistan and why we had to go into Iraq. The dictators of those countries don't care how many of their people die. They only care about what happens to them personally.

Besides having to win the War on Terror, we learned a lesson in World War 2. Hitler first increased his military, then he started attacking and taking over small countries that were next to Germany. Al during this time he carried on a propaganda war similar to the one thr Arab countries are doing now. The majority of people in Europe and America put there heads in the sand and said. "If we do nothing, maybe Hitler will leave us alone". Well, that didn't happen.

After the war it could be clearly seen, that if Europe and America had intervened the first time Hitler took over a country, that we would have won easily and there would have been no WW2!
In the Gulf War, Iraq attacked and took over Quwait until we intervened and pushed them out. In Quwait we found that Sadam
had papers there with his plans to invade Saudi Arabia after Quwait. This man was doing exactly what Hitler did before WW2.

Ok, we pushed Sadam out of Quwait but Sadam was not complying with the cease fire agreement. He was shhoting at our planes, he wasn't letting the UN inspectors go to all of the places they wanted to inspect for WMDs. He WAS trying to acquire WMDs and did have some. If we did nothing, he could have developed nuclear weapons and threatened not only the entire region but also ourselves.

The USA not only the right to go into Iraq again but we had the responsibility to do it to save lives in this country and in the entire world.

As far as love thy neighbor as thy self. It would be nice if the only thing that "love" meant was hugs and kisses. Sometimes things are not so simple or easy. If a 260 pound psychopathic serial rapist, murderer broke into my home with a large knife and had the intention of raping and murdering my wife, my 9 y/o daughter, and my 12 y/o daughter, and I had a gun; what should I do to love my neighbor as myself?

Should I just stand back and allow this man to rape and murder my wife, my 9y/o and my 12 y/o daughters? How is that loving to them? Should I shoot the would be rapist, thereby saving my wife and daughters? I don't know about you, but I would choose the
2nd scenario.

That is exactly what our president, George w. Bush is doing. I for 1 am extremely proud of his foresight and courage at sticking to this difficult task of protecting us, despite the many lies that are being said about him.

You can't talk about whether George W. is a Christian or not until you know about what being a Christian is all about and until you have enough knowledge and experience to know what really is going on in the world. You certainly will not hear the truth from the Democrats. All they care about is regaining power, and they don't care if they harm the country in the process. You certainly are not going to hear the truth from any Arab country or from any of the the terrorists!

Answer 9

It is sure easy to sit back and judge others, even though the Bible tells us not to judge others. Question, as you are so critical, what is your answer to the problem, what would you have done, as you seem so smart. No I am not a republican, I am an American who supports the person regardless of party that I believe is right, and yes I am wrong sometimes.

Answer 10

This statement assumes that there is an essential value of truth to it and also assumes that readers will agree with this. Sadly it is a strategy to voice an opinion an not sincerly ask a questions. As such I am not bale to respond with anything adequate as I disagree with the premises you suppose to be tru and accept as fact.

Answer 11

In a perfect world, we would not need war, but is it truly okay to sit by and allow masses of other people die at the hands of a few. Yes it is abosulely tragic that innocent people are dying, but how do you reason with terrorists?