Thats great. Thanks.
To: The PeskyWabb.
Maybe this can help you.
Rapture and Revelation.
There is no conflict, it may be that you do not understand that there are two “appearings”: two comings of Christ - both with an “R”. The first is the “Rapture”. That's when we hear the words, “come up hither” in Revelation 4:1 and we're caught up in the twinkling of an eye, I Corinthians 15:52. The dead in Christ rise first, then we which are alive and remain are caught up with the dead in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, I Thessalonians 4:16.
And I believe probably the most obvious would be events that happened in the Old Testament that seem like the Rapture. And, we have some in the Old Testament.
Well not actually what takes place at the Rapture, for then we get brand new bodies, to be like the body of Jesus, I John 3:2-3.
However, there were two men in the Old Testament who were snatched up to meet the Lord in the heavenlies. Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him. Now it was a form of the Rapture, but it wasn’t really the Rapture, because he’s on the other side in his old body. It was not changed as he went up. And then in 2 Kings 2:11, Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven, but he’s still there in his body. All the others are there as spirits, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, 2 Corinthians 5:8. And James teaches us that, chapter 2:27, as the body went out, the spirit is dead, because that sprit is with the Lord. So it’s a total heaven, full of spirits, even the angels, except these two bodies, and they come back, and they are the two witnesses of Revelation chapter 11. And in verse 12, after they’ve been killed, because the crowds don’t want to hear their preaching, they are caught up into heaven.
I always remember a child being taught about the " Rapture" in the Catholic schools, but They called it" being caught up into heaven". Why do our churches seldom mention the event?
Catholic school they taught it as “being caught up”. That is I Thessalonians 4:17. You know, someone said you can't find the word “rapture” in the Bible. But you can in the Catholic Bible, the Latin Vulgate by Saint Jerome. When he gets to I Thessalonians 4:17, he uses the word “rapiamore” – it means raptured – where it says, “caught up” in our English versions. Why don't more churches do it? They don't study and they don't know what the Bible says. They don't study the catechism – they don’t study the Word of God. God forgive us for that situation.
He talks about a Pre-tribulation Rapture and the Tribulation is that seven-year period of judgment on earth – Revelation chapters 6 to 18 – because we go up in chapter 4 and it only begins in chapter 6. We call it a pre-tribulation Rapture and the Rapture is I Thessalonians 4 verses 16 to 18, when the dead in Christ rise and the living go up with them to meet the Lord in the air and all in the twinkling of an eye, I Corinthians 15:52.
However, during the seven-year period of Tribulation, the greatest revival in history occurs as 144,000 evangelists swarm the world in Revelation 7 verses 4 to 8, and they are preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom – Matthew 24:14. The King is coming and a multitude like the sands of the sea, Revelation 7:9, is converted and verse 14 says, “They came out of the Great Tribulation and washed their robes, made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Because of it, death comes to those new converts during that seven-year period in Revelation 6:9, 13:50 and Revelation 20 verse 4. Now Christ comes back with His saints, Jude 14, and Daniel 12:2 - the Old Testament Jews are raised and at that point, all those who died during the Tribulation are also raised. I hope that answers your question.
You notice. The 144,00 is Old testament evagelists. This will disappoint the Jehovah Witness'.
All of the Old Testament Believers have to be washed in The Blood of The Lamb. Jesus came to "Fulfill The Law of Moses. Not to change it. Jesus changed nothing, this was prophecied from the very begining.
Those who read the Bible literally, such as Tim LaHaye and Baxter agree that the end is imminent.
everybody is asking, “Is this is so, is this so?” Well, what do you have to say? Let me just go into this first, before you answer that. Paul Maier, he takes a very critical look at the end of the world scenario in the Left Behind series. And “Prophecy feeds fires debate – end-of-world books have an eternal appeal”. And “Different visions on how it all will end.” Well, you know, I just have to say that world “end”, I don't believe the world’s going to end. Neither does Tim Lahaye and all these other men.
Those who read the Bible literally, such as Tim LaHaye and Baxter agree that the end is imminent.
everybody is asking, “Is this is so, is this so?” Well, what do you have to say? Let me just go into this first, before you answer that. Paul Maier, he takes a very critical look at the end of the world scenario in the Left Behind series. And “Prophecy feeds fires debate – end-of-world books have an eternal appeal”. And “Different visions on how it all will end.” Well, you know, I just have to say that world “end”, I don't believe the world’s going to end. Neither does Tim Lahaye and all these other men.
I know Dr. Tim Lahaye, Dr. Hal Lindsay, Dr. Dwight Pentecost, Dr. Walvoord, and Dr. Grant Jeffrey. None of them believe that the world will end for at least another thousand years. Christ is coming as the King of kings and Lord of lords, Revelation 19:16, to rule and reign for one thousand years, Revelation 20:4. It is the amillennialist crowd who says there’ll be no millennium who’s preaching that it’s the end and that the end will come. Not these men, you’ve misunderstood them.
Well, doesn't the Bible speak about the end of the world? Yes, Matthew 13:39, 40,49, Matthew 24:3, Matthew 28:20 and Hebrews 9:26, but any Greek Orthodox teacher in their catechism will tell you that is not the end of the world. It is the end of the age of grace before we go into Christ's reign on earth. This world even after a thousand years is never going to end. “The earth abides forever”, Ecclesiastes 1:4. “Yahweh God created the earth, it shall never, never, never be removed”, Psalm 104:5. Jesus said, “The meek shall inherit the earth”, Matthew 5:5. For how long? “the meek inherit the earth forever and forever”, .Psalm 37:29 when Christ sets up his government on earth, “of the increase of his government, there shall be no end”, Isaiah 9:7, and when he sits on David's throne in Luke 1:32, He rules over the house of Jacob, Israel forever and forever and of his kingdom “there shall be no end”.
The 5 Judgements:
Five different, diversified, and distinct judgments are presented in the Bible. Men who do not rightly divide the Word of Truth (2 Timothy 2:15) often confuse this fact by conglomerately linking the various texts concerning judgment into one mass hodgepodge. I will not be guilty of this practice. Instead, I will differentiate and briefly describe each of the five judgments, also noting where they may be found in Scripture.
(1.)The first judgment
Judgment number one is of the believer's sin.
Nearly two thousand years ago, Christ came down from heaven's glory to shed His precious blood for a world of ungodly sinners. He did not die for His own sin, for He knew no sin, but became sin for us (see 2 Corinthians 5:21). Through this substitionary death -- dying for you and me -- all who receive this Christ can have the past, present, and future stains of sin immediately forgiven, forgotten, obliterated, and liquidated, because the blood of Jesus Christ his [God's] Son cleanseth us from ALL sin (1 John 1:7, emphasis mine).
As soon as the washing of regeneration takes place (Titus 3:5), God cries, Their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more (Hebrews 8:12). The result of being so completely washed in the blood is that, there is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1). This is true because Christ was already judged in the sinner's place. :)
Oh, what love, what compassion. Is it any wonder that Paul declares in Hebrews 2:3, How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation?
(2.)The second judgment
The second judgment is of the believer's service.
This investigative probe into a believer's lifetime of ... "The Judgment Seat of Christ"
(3.)The third judgment
The third judgment is of Israel.
During the Tribulation Hour, an enemy comes against Israel from the North (see Ezekiel 38 and 39). Then the armies of the world also converge on the Middle East (see Zechariah 14:2), and this period of bloody devastation becomes the time of Jacob's trouble (Jeremiah 30:7).
(4.)The fourth judgment
The fourth judgment is of the nations.
Matthew 25 pictures the return of Christ to this earth. The text correlates to and is synonymous with Revelation 19:11-16, when Christ returns to earth as King of kings and Lord of lords. Before He establishes His millennial kingdom upon earth for 1,000 years (see Revelation 20:4), He purges the earth of its rebels (see Matthew 25:31-46).
The righteous are then allowed to enter God's earthly kingdom utopia for 1,000 years and eventually, heaven for eternity. This transition is observed in 1 Corinthians 15:24,25 which states, Then cometh the end [Millennium], when he shall have...put down all rule and authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
(5.)The fifth judgment
The fifth and final judgment is of the wicked.
Commonly called "The Great Judgment Day," this solemn universal trial is described in Revelation 20:11-15. John says, And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven f1ed away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Friend, the hour is coming when every unsaved, unregenerate sinner must meet a holy God for a detailed review of his life upon planet earth. When God's books are opened, every offender's tongue shall be silenced. There will be no hope then, but there is now! Why? Because Christ died for our sins ( 1 Corinthians 15:3). This means that the guiltiest of mortals can immediately be absolved by trusting in the merits of the shed blood of Jesus.
144,000
He talks about a Pre-tribulation Rapture and the Tribulation is that seven-year period of judgment on earth – Revelation chapters 6 to 18 – because we go up in chapter 4 and it only begins in chapter 6. We call it a pre-tribulation Rapture and the Rapture is I Thessalonians 4 verses 16 to 18, when the dead in Christ rise and the living go up with them to meet the Lord in the air and all in the twinkling of an eye, I Corinthians 15:52.
However, during the seven-year period of Tribulation, the greatest revival in history occurs as 144,000 evangelists swarm the world in Revelation 7 verses 4 to 8, and they are preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom – Matthew 24:14. The King is coming and a multitude like the sands of the sea, Revelation 7:9, is converted and verse 14 says, “They came out of the Great Tribulation and washed their robes, made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Because of it, death comes to those new converts during that seven-year period in Revelation 6:9, 13:50 and Revelation 20 verse 4. Now Christ comes back with His saints, Jude 14, and Daniel 12:2 - the Old Testament Jews are raised and at that point, all those who died during the Tribulation are also raised
Rev. 4:1
Revelation 4:1 is in reference to the Rapture. As I read Rev. 4:1 it states that the call to come up hither was to the Apostle John and not the church. How can interpretation to Rev. 4:1 be reconciled when it is obvious John and not the church is being spoken to? I'll tell you why.
In Revelation 4:1, John hears the voice saying, come up hither. But is he the only one that goes up? No. Drop down to verses 10 and 11. The four and 20 elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, worshipped him that lives forever and ever and cast their crowns before the throne saying, thou art worthy, oh, Jesus, to receive glory, honor and praise, for you have created all things.
Who are these 24? They are representatives from the Old Testament and New Testament saints, those who knew the Lord. They're laying their crowns at Jesus' feet and no one will be crowned until the resurrection of the just, Luke 14:14. So they've been crowned and how did they get there? The Rapture. It wasn't just John
First Beast and 2nd Beast
Revelation 13:1-10 discusses the rise of the Antichrist as “The Beast of the Sea”. Yet Revelation 13:11-18 discusses another Beast, as “The Beast out of the Earth”. What is the second Beast, and how is he different from the first Beast?
(Beast of The sea):
Think that the Antichrist is the one lone being during that time. And Revelation 13:1, this is the infamous Antichrist, the world dictator. And he’s the politician. And it says he comes out of the sea, because that represents Gentile nations. And so he comes out of the Revived Roman Empire, of Daniel 9:26.
(Beast out of the Earth):
And the False Prophet who backs him is a world religious leader in Revelation 13:11. And he has the two horns of a lamb, but speaks as a dragon. The two horns of the lamb identify him as a member of a Christian background, because Christ is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, John 1:29. And lo and behold, he speaks as the dragon, that’s Satan, Revelation 20:2. So though he claims to be Christian, he propagates false doctrine. And he sets up this image of the Antichrist in the temple, II Thessalonians 2:4.
2006-07-28 13:24:47
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answer #1
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answered by Anonymous
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I don't quite understand the whether or not the faithful will have to live through the Tribulation. Proverbs 3:13, Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding" I believe God will apply that to me, a woman. Don't you?
Anyway: There are pastors who teach that Christians will be raptured before the Tribulation.
Others teach Mid-Tribulation or 3 1/2 years into the Tribulation
Daniel 9:24-27
All schools of thought agree on two things: (1) That the second coming of Christ is a separate event from the rapture; and (2)
That there will be a rapture of Christians before Christ returns. The issue in debate is when?
My low level of understanding leads me to think that the Tribulation period does not apply to the church at all, it applies to Israel and the Gentile unbelieving nations of the world. the word "church" never appears again in the book of Revelation after chapter 4:1. Between chapters 4-22 in Revelation you have a significant record of the events of the Tribulation period, but "the church" is never mentioned.
I think that there are two groups that will live through the Tribulation period. The first group is the nation of Israel.
Jer 30:7 says: "How awful that day will be! None will be like it. It will be a time of trouble for Jacob, but he will be saved out of it."
Then in Jer 30:11 it says: "’I am with you and will save you,' declares the LORD. 'Though I completely destroy all the nations among which I scatter you, I will not completely destroy you. I will discipline you but only with justice; I will not let you go entirely unpunished.'"
And the second group is what the Bible refers to as "those who dwell on the earth".
In Rev. 3:10, Jesus is talking to the church of Philadelphia and he says:
Rev 3:10 "Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth."
"Earth-dwellers" appears six others times in the book of Revelation: Rev. 6.10, 8:13, 11:10; 13:8; and 17:8.
* In 6:10 the earth-dwellers are the persecutors against whom the martyrs plead for vengeance.
* In 8:13 a threefold woe is pronounced against them because of the final three trumpets, which are to come.
* They are the ones who gloat over the death of the two witnesses in 11:10;
* and worship the beast from the sea in 13:8.
* In 13:14 they are the individuals who are deceived by the beast from the land into making an image of the first beast.
* The earth dwellers gaze in wonder at the scarlet beast in 17:8, while 13:8 and 17:8 add that their names are not written in the Book of Life.
The phrase "earth-dwellers" comes from a Hebrew idiom in Isa. 24:1, 5, 6 and 26:9 and is seen as a technical term for those who are the persecutors of the saints in the Tribulation period. The saints I am referring to are the people who become believers during the Tribulation period and are killed because they would not take the mark of the anti-Christ. We’ll get to that in a minute.
Joel 3:12-17 also talks of the judgement of these unbelieving nations:
"'Let the nations be roused; let them advance into the Valley of Jehoshaphat (we know it as the valley of Armageddon), for there I will sit to judge all the nations on every side. Swing the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Come, trample the grapes, for the winepress is full and the vats overflow-- so great is their wickedness!'
"Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. The sun and moon will be darkened, and the stars no longer shine. The LORD will roar from Zion and thunder from Jerusalem; the earth and the sky will tremble. But the LORD will be a refuge for his people, a stronghold for the people of Israel. 'Then you will know that I, the LORD your God, dwell in Zion, my holy hill. Jerusalem will be holy; never again will foreigners invade her." Joel 3:12-17
Judgement on Israel, the "earth-dwellers" or "unbelieving nations of the world." is a consistent pattern through the Word of God, there is no mention of the church.
Is the church, the faithful in Christ, already gone?
I would be very grateful for any instruction you may have on this.
2006-07-28 19:30:51
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answer #2
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answered by Anonymous
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