What did God mean by this?

Question

Deut 21:18-21

If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father and mother, who does not heed them when they discipline him, then his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his town at the gate of that place. They shall say to the elders of his town, This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard. Then all the men of the town shall stone him to death. So you shall purge the evil from your midst; and all Israel will hear, and be afraid.
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What did God, the creator of the millions of galaxies and trillions of stars, the all knowing all powerful being mean by this?
Please refrain from making things up out of thin air and making excuses for God of the old testament if this IS God's word. THis to me is pretty straitforward.

....so, again we have a nasty account of how to handle a rebellious kid and unnervingly, Christians agreeing with it, outright denying it, and making excuses for it.
So, Christians think God was on the right path when condoning parents actions of having their rebelleous kid put to death through stoning. nice.

Answer 1

God stated in 1 Samuel that rebellion is as same as the sin of witchcraft. One of the ten commandments states that we need to honor our parents. God command the people of Israel to stone their kids if they refused to obey their parents. Back then God was their reigning King and Lord before the actual human kings came along. Also God wanted the people of Israel to realize just how deadly a rebellious spirit was and it was completely unacceptable in God's eyes. Being rebellious meant you were following in the path of Satan and that is not what God wants. You can't follow God and have a rebellious spirit in you - those two don't go together at all. He wants a willing vessel who has a humble and blamess heart to follow Him. Let me tell you back in those days, when rules like this was implemented, it only took one death of a child for other to realize God meant business and being rebellious was not an option but something no one should be part of. If you can't obey your parents, then what makes you think you will obey God? Obedience is a very crucial issue with God and still to this day God requires obedience out of us, when we disobey, we bring a whole lot of problems on ourseleves on our society. Look at what disobedience to God's law done to our nation, our teenagers, our world. It doesn't take long to figure out that when you disobey Godly authorities, you open the door for Satan to come right on it and destroy everything good that God wants for your life.

Answer 2

If he's a "drunkard and a glutton" -NOT a kid!

I remember the Torah to be the first five books of the Bible wherein Deutoronomy is the last. That being said, if you know a little about scripture, the Torah was written by Moses. It starts off with Genesis, gives us the 10 commandments and other "laws". These books can also be seen as a historical book about how Moses was lead by the Lord to govern the twelve tribes of Israel. If you read Numbers 1:20 you see that Moses counted at one point 603,550 males twenty years or older who were fit for battle. This did not include the women, children, older men, etc. Imagine, trying to govern probably over a million people in the wilderness, tribal people who were introduced to the Ten Commandments by Moses.
If you keep in mind tht this is a historical book, you will get a glimpse of how unruly some of these people must have been and how difficult the task of Moses to govern them. This law is a history of a law during Moses' times. It's not to be applied today. The monumental task tht Moses had was only possible through the annointing of God even with what we view as harsh laws- Marshall laws so to speak. In the yr 2006, we still use Marshall Law in a state of emergency.
These people were being led through the wilderness- ALL OF THEM. Evenutally, they were so difficult that even an entire generation had to pass before they finally entered their promised land. They were in a constant state-of-emergency so to speak. As they wandered through the wilderness, they had to be ready to defend and attack enemies.
You really can't take things out of context.

Answer 3

This seemingly harsh punishment for rebellion has been used by the critics of Christianity to infer the moral backwardness of Old Testament ethics. It is easy to throw stones from the comfort of our 21st century perspective. But the ancient harsh example is intended to keep order in the family and also in society. Consider Exodus 20:12 which says, "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the Lord your God gives you." God's intention is that the family not degenerate to such an extent that authority is undermined. This has a potential serious consequences in society as a whole should familial rebellion become rampant.
In the Old Testament God appears harsh for three reasons. First, it was to demonstrate the exacting requirements of the Law, a perfect and demanding standard. Second, it ultimately demonstrates the need for grace that would eventually be manifested on the cross. Third, should rebellion take root the very heart of the gospel would be at risk since the prophecies of the Messiah coming to and through Israel could be undermined should rebellion become rampant and society fall apart causing the prophecies to fail. Therefore, we can conclude that this harsh requirement was a necessary legality to instill and designate the necessity of family order and respect and to ultimately provide another safeguard that would ensure the sacrifice of Christ.

Answer 4

This is in reference to an older child (perhaps 20's and above) not a kid. He meant that if a "child" willfully engaged in immoral actions i.e. drunkeness, fornication, adulterty etc etc. then this person should be put to death plan and simple. He is blatently disregarding God's law. God is holy ad allows for no uncleaness to go on under his rule hence the latter part of vs 21. (also see how the world had turned out with willful wrong doing going on now? So this law kept peace and order in that nation at that time.) This law underlined God's very hatred for willful wrongdoing and shows he will not tollerate it under his rule in the future. But it also shows his love for people and their well being. You can't live peacefully in any community when you have a rebel running around, they'll do anything that comes to mind. Look at today's example of undiscipline kids. It must be stated though if the "child" was repentant he would live.

Answer 5

I believe it is exactly as it says. But this is the reason why I believe God said that.

God was talking to the Israelites. That's who this commandment was for. God was trying to establish himself. There were many other pagan God's, many other religions, many other people worshiping several other things. The only way to keep order was to purge all evil, all temptations, all idoloters ect. Anything that could be a thorn to the Israelites faith. God was the only God that actually required something of the people. It's the only faith that required the people to live a certain way, be a certain way... and when he was using Israel to do this... they were very, gullible, or easily swayed, impressionable. So he had to make sure that there was nothing or noone that was going to interfere with his people... the people that he had chosen as his own to spread the word about the God that he is. To deny the creator deserves such punishment. Any less of a punishment and men wouldn't fear to deny God and live a life of sin... the punishment would have to be something severe in order for people to heed to his words... The people had to lead by example... but hypocrites, idoloters, liars, cheaters, manipulators, drunks, rebellious people cannot lead other people to God... They will be a thorn to the others around them... pulling them down and making them think those things are ok.... unless they are living saved and all of that is pretty much in their past.

It is like it says... and it says why... "So you shall purge the evil from your midst, AND ALL ISRAEL WILL HEAR AND BE AFRAID. The fear would keep many from acting out and doing evil in the first place.


P.S. Jesus did not "Do away with" the old laws in the old testament. Jesus said, "I have not come to do away with the old law, but to fulfill it" He did make, however, some slight changes.



Deuteronomy 11:2 (Whole Chapter)
Remember today that your children were not the ones who saw and experienced the discipline of the LORD your God: his majesty, his mighty hand, his outstretched arm;


Proverbs 22:15 (Whole Chapter)
Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him.


Proverbs 23:13 (Whole Chapter)
Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die.

Hebrews 12:7 (Whole Chapter)
Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?


Deuteronomy 8:5 (Whole Chapter)
Know then in your heart that as a man disciplines his son, so the LORD your God disciplines you.

Hebrews 12:5 (Whole Chapter)
And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons: "My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,


Hebrews 12:6 (Whole Chapter)
because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son." [ Prov. 3:11,12]

Answer 6

Being mean would be an opinion and everybody is entitled to their own opinion. God has power over all things and can do whatever His will may be.
Yes this is how it was during the time of the Old Testament.
And it is very straight forward. There should be no misunderstanding of how they handled these situations.
But through the grace of God He sent His Son Jesus Christ to us to give us a new law. The law of love.

Matthew 22:36: Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37: Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38: This is the first and great commandment.
39: And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40: On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Hebrews !2:27And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29For our God is a consuming fire.

Answer 7

If you don't want to read this then don't. This was apart of the old testament. After Jesus died on the cross for us so many things changed. Is our God a vengeful God, sure he is. The word tells us that. We have to keep in mind God knew as a people he created we would grow as everything around us grows. Technology grow and we as a educated people are not supposed to grow? Remember, as a child their are things we can do and not do. If you look at the bible it show the progression of the human race. The break troughs of growing in every way. We no longer use the bathroom outside because God created someone who created the toilet. We can eat just about anything now because we know how to cure (preserve it) and remove bacteria that will kill us. So many things were forbidden because we had to grow up in many ways. We no longer have to live by our old barbaric ways. We no longer have to sacrifice animals, we will no longer be stoned to death for working on the Sabbath day (and we still need to keep it holy), but people won't come and stone us to death because of it. Before you can walk you have to crawl. I don't pretend to know Gods hand, but what I do know is that I rely on him and him alone.

Answer 8

Such behaviors of the parents to the son is not God's attitude.
God simply look on with compassion, and unjudgemental.
Because we are here to learn our life lessons. We're subject to the laws of the universe God has created. Therefore, whatever actions we choose, there will be a consequence following the choice. We reap what we sow. That means, we are responsible for all our actions and thoughts. If we make a right choice, we'll prosper and be happy. If we make a wrong choice, we'll suffer accordingly. There are obstacles and challenges in life. If we face and accept it, we'll soon learn to overcome it and then we'll grow to become more and more evolved.
In other words, rewards and punishments are in our own hands.
God just watch on.
Parents have their own role. They are not God.

Answer 9

Cities of Israel that turned apostate were to be devoted to destruction, and nothing was to be preserved for personal benefit by anyone. The city was never to be rebuilt. (De 13:12-17) Delinquents whose parents could not control them were to be stoned to death.—21:18-21.
Juvenile delinquency has become a serious mass problem in our society today, not only in the West, but also in the Soviet Union . . . The opinion is growing that a stated number of years in prison is not the most promising way to deal with a convicted criminal.”—Encyclopedia Americana, 1977, Vol. 17, p. 73.
The legal system given to Moses prevented these problems. Justice was swift and decentralized. Juvenile delinquency was rare in Israel, because it was viewed very seriously and could be punished by death. If they found that he was a deliberate, unrepentant wrongdoer, the parents were to share in executing justice. (Deuteronomy 21:18-21) Those of us who are parents can imagine that it was not easy to do that. Yet God knew that it was needed so that wickedness would not spread among true worshipers. (Ezekiel 33:17-19) This was arranged by the One about whom it could be said: “All his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; righteous and upright is he.”—Deuteronomy 32:4.
We are no longer under the Mosaic Law Covenent, but children are still under command to obey and respect their parents in all things and if they do this, they have the hope of living forever here on earth, just as Ephesians 6:1-3 states_"Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise; That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth."

Answer 10

Love the sinner, not the sin,

whatever it takes, even very graphical and violent depictions in the Old Testament,

remember, God di that once before when he asked old Abraham to sacrifice his only son,

once God looked into the heart of Abraham and saw the true willing ness and obedience to do Gods will, he released both and made a very important covenant with them, promising grace love and the saving of mankind

it's not always the literal word in the bible, everything basically is answered in allegorical terms, little stories etc.