Do you think you know whether or not God exists?

Question

A lot of people, and probably most of you who will read this, need to get something straight. Personal beliefs are just that. Personal beliefs. It’s common sense. It says so, right in the name. Now stay with me on all of this, because odds are, you’ll agree with at least one of these paragraphs. Many of you will agree with only one. Well, **** you. It’s all true, and it all needs to be said, and it would do you all a world of good to accept it. I’m probably about to piss a lot of people off, but I don’t care. This needs to stop, not just on this site, but everywhere, and I wish there was any hope of what I am writing here having any significant impact.

A bit lengthy, see additional info…

You do not know that God exists. You can believe that God exists. But you do not know it. You do not know it because “you can feel it”. What that feeling is, is your puny little brain being overwhelmed by what it can’t understand. You’re being overwhelemed and confused by your own emotions. That is not the holy spirit, that is an early stage of psychosis. Amazing as this may be to you, there are a lot of things we humans don’t understand. This is not proof of God, this is proof that humans are not God.

You do not know that God does not exist. You may have your reasons for doubting it, that’s fine. You don’t know. Because if there is a God, his/her/its reasoning and actions are infinitely more complex than anything you will ever be able to understand. The fact that God does not make sense to you does not mean that God does not exist. Don’t be so arrogant, and so foolish, to believe that an all-powerful being has any obligation to explain itself to the likes of you.

Believe whatever you want. Stop speaking as though you know better than anyone else. You don’t. For every reason you have, that your personal beliefs are the one and only truth, everyone else has a reason for theirs. We don’t know. We can’t know. That doesn’t mean we should give up on knowing, but it does mean that you need to shut up and accept that we don’t know yet, and stop thinking that you do know. Deal with the uncertainty that is inherent in not being all-knowing. Because quite frankly, denial is unhealthy, and some of us are getting tired of the way you’re expressing it.

So many of you are demonstrating exactly what I'm talking about. And Mr. O'Keefe? You assume. I do not have faith that God does not exist. I clearly explained that one cannot know either that he does or does not. Kindly stop putting words in my mouth, if you would? Thanks.

Sebek: You are just plain ignorant. You (like many others here) do not understand what I've said at all.

"Hey, let's all fight about it, so as not to be *******!" Right? That's what your argument comes down to. Grow the f u c k up, dumbass.

^^^^^didn't realize it would censor that. "...not to be p u s s i e s"

zenhighway: That is because you are a pretentious dipshit who allows semantics to interfere with meaningful conversation. It was a proper question. It was not a trick. Thanks for playing. Enjoy your consolation prize, an undeservedly inflated ego.

it’s your own fault: you are a gullible gullible person. I do not believe “the Earth is a sphere, suspended in space” is in the bible. No, people like you heard something that if you twist it the right way, sounds similar, and decided that it must mean that. What is actually in the bible could mean a million different things, unless you’re specifically looking for a piece of information in there. Your other examples were common sense. Fracture your nose and it will bleed. Plants have seeds that grow into new plants. Yeah. Good thing God pointed that out for us. I looked up the chariot wheels stories. Those are VERY disputable, and in most cases, are coral that people got a little too excited about.

I looked up your other example, too. I quote:

“The geologists said.that Lot's wife did not appear to turn into a pillar of salt because she dared to look back but because of the briny nature of the Dead Sea. But the research shows it was more likely a case of mistaken identity....

...Mr. Harris said by telephone from Canada that the Dead Sea was full of salt floes that might have been thrown up by surging water to resemble a female outline." Hence legend is created out of what can now be explained as a simple geological phenomenon," he said.”

Gee, look how rational explanations defeat religion every time. I respect your beliefs. Believe whatever you want. But don’t go head to head against me on this issue. You will lose.

kimberli: No offense. I can tell you weren’t being hostile, and so I do not intend my response to be taken as hostile. But no, it is not the same. I am not telling anyone to be agnostic. I’m telling them to stop telling everyone else that they’re right, when they can’t possibly know what they claim to know. I’m trying to stop the arrogance and ignorance that plagues the planet, and causes so much trouble. And if bliss is worth ignorance, feel free to hit yourself in the head with a hammer until you can’t do anything but laugh and drool.

vijaya s, JoeThatUKnow, devlsadvoct, yadayada, kurleylovescheese, curls: I am glad to know people like you exist, out there. Glad to see some people are not the arrogant, ignorant fools that I’ve found to be so plentiful around here.

Traingirl, SkyCam24: You, too, are in a good, healthy mentality. You are not demanding that your own senses and perception are infallible, or denying their subjectivity, and for that I commend you.

Geni: Never have so many words meant so little. I don’t think you understood what I was saying, possibly because you were too busy making up a “real problem” behind what I actually said (and meant). And no offense, but that was a bunch of hot air.

Most of you (as I had predicted. Whoa, see that? I made an accurate prediction! According to what some of you have said, that makes me a prophet!) : Ok class, these people are fine examples of what I was talking about. See what they’re doing? Arrogance, presumption, and amazingly enough, using what they don’t understand to prove that they know what they’re talking about. It comes down to this, people. Learn the difference between personal beliefs and facts. Believe what you want, but you may want to at least acknowledge that there are plenty of people who disagree with you, for very good reasons. Samara, I understand exactly what you mean, but your argument against evolution is extremely faulty.

Some of you don’t even seem to understand that I am neither christian nor atheist…

Answer 1

I completely agree, I am amazed at how many people seemed to not get it. I am an atheist, therefore, I do not believe in any higher power. I can't prove there isn't one beyond any reasonable doubt.
I don't believe in trying to convert anyone, I think if they ask or we are discussing it I will tell them. Knowledge is the key to tolerance and understanding.
Those who are Christian, my husband is one, believe there is a God, they also can't prove beyond any reasonable doubt there is one.
This doesn't make everyone agnostic as some would say, it means everyone has their own beliefs because everyone thinks differently. It shouldn't be a big deal, yet everyone gets so defensive and wants everyone to believe as they do.

Answer 2

God exists. Hey, check this out. He even has a book out called the bible. Think it's all a bunch of do nothing stories. It's filled with tons of overwhelming scientific proof of God's existance. "The earth is a sphere suspended in space". Written years before space travel. "Wrenching of the nose will bring forth blood" Tis true. All plants will produce seeds to bring forth of it's own kind. Well, that sure seems to be working. The parting of the Red Sea, funny how they are finding chariot wheels down there now. Lots wife turned into a pillar of salt. Funny there's a pillar of salt that still exists in the very same area. Oh there are tons more, but your narrow mindedness will only consider all this to be a mere coincidence. Try this. get a bible. You can get them for free, won't cost you a penny. Then open in it to John 3:16....oh sorry. The book of John. Where you'll expose chapter 3 verse 16. Now, make sure you're in a safe area. Take some gasoline, start cursing the non-existing God, demand God that if he exists to prove himself to you once and for all. Now, set the bible on fire, still cursing God and condeming Him. Now, right when the flames are at thier peak, take a sword and stab the bible. While still condeming and cursing God. Still asking Him to proof himself. Now, if you happen to survive, let us all know what happened. Shouldn't be no big deal for you to do. Right. Go on, go ahead. Just go do it. Shouldn't take you long. And simply report back your findings. Or is you feable ego to chicken hearted to give it a try.

Answer 3

Wow, there's an earful. Thank you. Well, here's what little I have to say about that.

If all knowledge depends on physical measurement, then not only do you lose truth, beauty, and love, you also lose mathematics, logic, and even epistemology.

In other words, if personal experience cannot mean anything, then neither can your or my reasoning. Neither can the mathematics that drive the chips that run the computers, that allow me to discuss things with you from a different part of the world without ever having known you.

I find when I get very upset and frustrated, it's because there is something amiss in my life--the internal order of my life isn't to be found in the external order of things. It could be all these God-fearing people imposing their beliefs in these forums. I can see that this would create a lot of stress and anger for a person not convinced of their beliefs. It could be that, but reason doesn't support that this is the whole answer. The world is full of people that don't agree with you or me, but most of the time we can keep our cool about it and go about our own lives.

But this isn't the case tonight. Tonight, you want to take your feelings back. You want to have the full gammit (sp?) of your feelings without some other person shoving their meaning of your feelings down your throat. You want the freedom to be who and what you are.

That's a very different thing than what you said in your post.

The thing is, however, beyond arguing about the existence of God, is the experience of mankind. I mean, what pissed Plato and Socrates off so much? The Sophists? What's up with that? These were a peace-loving people who had no need for war, trouble, or the complexities of life. They existed for about a millenium without breaking a sweat. Then these guys (who were actually born Sophists, by the way) get their panties tied up in knots and start creating straw men arguments out of these Sophists. These guys built their livlihoods screaming at the wind, and modern man can reason that these weak-kneed arguments for the Sophist position was neither fair nor honest.

So what does that have to do with the price of tea in China or all these theists with their beliefs in these forums? The vast majority of pre-dominated life on this planet was ruled orderly by these personal beliefs, and they worked: the Sophists, the aboriginal Australians, the American Indians, the Highland Malasians, and on and on. Our university libraries are full of accounts of non-Westernized minds whose societies work on orders of magnitude better than our own. These personal beliefs account for something, even if you or I can't agree as to what.

So let's let our discussion end there, and call each other friends, OK?

A dear friend of mine (who happens to be atheist) tells me that an agnostic is an atheist without a spine. Whenever you declare yourself an atheist, you're a moving target for people to try and force their ideas on you. I know you carry an incredible burden for your beliefs, and you're not going to see me try to ruin your day because of it. If I drank, I'd buy you a drink and toast to your freedom to be who you are.

If someday our experiences change our minds that you or I come closer to agreement on this issue, then that would be splendid too.

Cheers!

Answer 4

Sorry i dont think hardly anyone will agree with any of these paragraphs or at least i dont. There is proof of God. look around you. like you said humans are not all knowing and we shouldnt try to be. So no human could have ever created everything you see when you walk outside. How do you explain that? Read John 20:29. ok actually since i know you wouldnt do that i will read it to you!, Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." I know God exists. Any christian you talk to should say the same. I believe in him and you should too. im not trying to be all knowing because no one is except the Lord but if theres one thing i am absolutely sure of its that God exists.

Answer 5

of course your 100% correct. nobody knows for sure. you can believe or not believe anything you want but, it doesn't make it true. in reading thru these answers it appears the believers have a more difficult time with this fact than nonbelievers. you see, i think it's because your raised to think a certain way and most people don't question that. they don't realize that the bible has only been around for a tiny portion of human history and we just happen to be living in the time period where christianity is the accepted belief. if you lived 10,000 years ago we'd be debating whether we should worship the sun or not.

Answer 6

If we could prove god exists it wouldn't be called faith. But things are too ordered, not random, for there to be no divine force. Numbers calculate that it is nearly impossible for life to form on its own and we still cannot explain how the universe started. A bit of nothing turned into matter and anti matter? And the bible had several things right that you would not expect someone from that time period to get right.

Answer 7

Um,isn't what you're doing a little bit like when the Christians try to convert people?I don't think either one is right.I don't want a Christian trying to tell me to believe in God,and I don't want an Atheist telling me not to.Yeah,it's personal belief,and everyone is entitled to it without someone else trying to mess it up.I would be a lot happier if I could believe in God.You obviously would be,too.Even if it is psychosis,who cares?!Ignorance can be bliss and no one has the right to try to take it away from someone like that.If they don't bother you,don't bother them.It's simple.And if they do bother you,ignore it.Goodness,you're taking it too personally.

Answer 8

If you suffer some sort of shortage in your mentality and knowledge,it does not mean that God does not exist.For the whol cosmo which we live in tells that God do exist by his own. This morning I waked up and I saw something strange happened in front of my eyes:do you believe ? I saw a heap of wood and nails are assembled by their own and became a nice table and chair. Believe me ! I tell you I sat on the chair and have my breakfast at this table.
If you are smart enough surely you' ll understand what I mean.
Dear, God created us and created our mental , reason and knowledge, so if these are incapable to proof that God exist or not , then becuase they suffer shortage and not even good for justifying excuses.

Answer 9

Goddamned agnostics. So you want to sit on the fence and yell at both sides, eh? Nobody can ever know anything so why don't we all just get along. We should all just give up and go home 'cause aint nobody gonna figure this out anytime soon. F*ck, you must be one boring SOB. So...uh...how 'bout this weather, huh? Did you watch the game last night?

If you think something can't be done, just get the f*ck out of the way of the people doing it.

I hope you fall off that goddamned fence and shove that stick further up your ar$e.

Answer 10

Too lengthy for me, my friend, but here's my "belief."

The truth for each of us is to be found in the heart, not the head. Therefore, if I feel God, I know s/he exists. If you do not feel God, then you don't. That simple. We must each seek our own truth. Be the seeker, and don't ever just take what anyone else tells you "on faith." Believe in your own intuition, and in your own heart's ability to discern the truth. Find your own answers, and don't worry about the people who have found theirs.