my sister is court ordered to go to AA because of her second DWI?

Question

I went with her to a meeting to be suportive, but ended up very offended! The entire "meeting" was based on god and his help in recovery! Being an atheist I was outraged that a judge can order some one 4 times a week to go to a meeting that is practicaly like church! This is wrong How can I get her out of this class?

she gets nothing out of these meetings, and usualy sneeks out asap. she is not religious, or an alcoholic. she's a bartender, and very irresposable.

Answer 1

I dated someone who went to those meetings. Brainwashing, Christianity-based, crap. The man and I were polytheists and the reactions were horrible. I can only imagine how it is for your sister. I doubt if she will be able to get out of going to the services (meetings). Having to sit through those religious services will definitely be a punishment that she won't forget. Perhaps she could conveniently go for a cup of coffee so she would miss having to participate in any of the rituals like holding hands and saying Christian prayers out loud.

Answer 2

AA isn't about God. In the 12 steps they refer to a higher being, but I guess you being an atheist that that would be offensive. But didn't you say this was about and for your sister? Maybe she needs to go on her own and make her own decisions on how she feels about the group. AA has been around for years and has helped a lot people through alcohol addiction. Having 2 DWI's indicates that maybe there is a problem so the judge has every right to sentence your sister to go to the meeting, it's better than her serving time in prison or losing her life in a car accident or killing someone else while she decided to drive after drinking.

You should try to see past your nose on what importance really lies beneath this situation than your own, individual belief.

Answer 3

Ha ha ha ha. You can't. She could refuse to go, and serve time instead (maybe 6 months). Don't rock the boat, or the judge will make it much worse. My uncle had a second dwi, they were 10 years apart. He had to go to AA, go to alcohol treatment, and serve 7 days in jail. He was .11 both times, about 4 beers. He didn't drive badly or have an accident. If he gets a third one it will be a felony and he'll do hard time. While he was in jail they didn't let him brush his teeth or take a shower.

Try suing the state. Ha ha ha ha. They have society convinced that drinking and smoking are the worse things that ever happened to the world. Using a cell phone while driving has been shown to be as bad as drunk driving, but how many madd mothers are out there calling on people leaving the bar? An old senile person can plow their car into a crowd of people, and nothing happens to them. Have a beer on the way home from work, and you're a menace to society, regardless of how you drive.

Answer 4

AA is not a class.

Your sister was sent to AA, not you... it's not your business what AA does, or what your sister does (or believes). You may be doing more harm than good by interfering.

AA allows you to use the "god" of your own understanding, and belief in God is not required to be member. Some AA groups are very "Church like" others are not.

AA is the most successful approach to alcohol treatment there is, period. If she is an alcoholic, they can help her.

Members of AA are familiar with your views and they have a chapter in their text written for the agnostics. AA only suggests its steps as a path to recovery. It is possible to still get value from the AA experience without adoption of all it's tenants.

If you were in my town (state of Texas) it could be worse.... Several of our treatment programs lost funding to religious based programs, and their clients are shuttled off to Church instead of Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous... consequently recovery rates have gone down drastically because in the religious community many see addictions as a moral dilemma. Many religious types do not believe that alcoholism and drug addiction are a disease and they think Jesus is the answer for everything.

Answer 5

Not all AA meetings are about God. The Higher Power they speak does not have to be about the Christian god. I heard of one meeting where they made a toaster the Higher Power. My Dad is not religious at all, and certainly is not a Christian in the least, but he goes to AA and gets a lot out of it. Ask for a meeting that caters to atheists; they are out there. And tell your sister not to drink and drive; it's disgusting and irresponsible. I am very thankful that my father never hurt or killed anyone or himself when he did the same thing. There is no excuse, and as a bartender she should know better.

Answer 6

Is your sister an atheist? Was she offended? It doesn't really matter if you were offended, the meeting was not about you. The meeting was to benefit her since she obviously has a problem and is a danger to herself and society.

Next time, let her go alone. Drop her off and pick her up but let her make her own judgment about the content. There is more to AA than the higher power aspect. She may get something out of. So might society. Better she go there than to jail, though isn't it?

Bottom line, sorry, but it's not about you, so your feelings about it are really don't matter in this situation.

Answer 7

Your sister should petition the court for an alternative. Of course, the judge could deny her. In that case, she could sue (very costly and time consuming) or, like traffic school, just sit it out and continue with her life. Judges have enormous discretion as to sentencing. In their court, they wield an almost regal power. AA is highly regarded and fairly sucessful, but even they will tell you that you can't be helped until you want to be. This is why forcing someone to go to meetings is a waste of everyone's time and (dare I say it?) a miscarriage of justice. All drunk drivers are not alchoholics, just as all drug users are not addicts. Unfortunately, the courts generally don't want to deal with people as individuals, but as part of the class of "offenders", and one-size-fits-all sentencing concepts are the norm.

Please encourage your sister to stop drinking, since she apparently doesn't know when she's had enough.

Answer 8

That's B.S.. I went to NA meetings with an Ex-girlfriend years ago and the people there talked about higher powers, not God. Surrendering your will is a big step in the recovery process for some people. I just looked at the whole thing as something else for the addict to be addicted to. Even so, it's better than drinking and driving. I am agnostic.

Answer 9

My recommendation to you is that you may need to find a suitable alternative if you are that offended. If you can come up with an alternative that will help your sister to overcome her alcoholism, you could then probably petition the court for other alternatives.

I realize that the issue of God is a concern for you and I can understand that, especially if I had to acknowledge something contrary to my beliefs. But think about the principles they are espousing in those meetings that you find are helpful to your sister.

These issues are the core our our walk with God. Love, Joy, Peace, Gentleness, Goodness, Faith, Meekness, Self Control
Is there a way to focus on those qualities instead at the meetings?

AA meetings are often held at a church because the congregations open their buildings because they want to sincerly help people. This desire to help people is at the core of our faith. We do this, not because we are better than people or to convert people, but because we're doing what our higher power expects us to do. And although you don't believe in it, that higher power has a 3 letter word for a name.

Can you not open your heart to allowing Christians to follow their hearts and help your sister and other people?

Answer 10

As a member of AA I can tell you that many are offended. I can also tell you what people at my AA group say to those who are offended - "Go drink some more & we'll be here when you get back." You may have intended to be supportive, but she doesn't need you to take her. If she won't go by herself she hasn't been hurt enough by her drinking for AA to make a difference yet.

YET = You're Eligible Too

AA was the reason I am a believer today. You're right - 7 of the 12 steps specifically mention God. The rest imply God. But it's the god of your own understanding. Mine started without even believing I was just willing to believe because I saw all these people whose gods were working in their lives. You don't have to go - in fact your attending could possible allow you to enable your sister right back into drinking. Of course if she's not ready to quit all the AA in the world won't make a difference.

The reason the courts us AA today is because it's the only program that works. AA itself says that we are not a monopoly on recovery. But the truth is, nothing ever in history before or since has ever shown the proven recovery that AA has. Why do you think there are over 200 12-step programs today, including Narcotics Anonymous, Cocaine Anonymous, Overeaters Anonymous, Gamblers Anonymous, Sex Addicts Anonymous, etc. No other program has the success rate that AA does. Most alternatives are jokes started by people who cannot or will not submit themselves to this simple program. And I'm not knocking them. They are not at fault - they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a way of life that demands rigorous honesty.

That's why I wish the courts wouldn't send them to AA. I hate to see them drag out the inevitable. Send them to jail instead so they can learn about what alcoholic behavior will earn you. You don't have to like that either. But my reasoning is because the ones who are court-ordered usually are young kids who don't care about whether they quit or not. I'd much rather that they drink until it hurts them badly - so that they, like all of us, they will be beaten into a state of reasonableness and finally willing to accept what happens. Because there's three places an alcoholic will end up: 1) sober 2) Institutionalized (in jail and/or hospitals/rehab) or 3) dead. God looks a lot more palatable when you look at it from that perspective. This is from a card-carrying atheist who never believed it would work for me. But here I am today, more than 11 years later.

So I'll pose this to you one way. It sounds very harsh, but that's because this is a life and death matter. I have seen too many people die because they don't like having God as part of the program. Seems a long way to go for a little stubborn pride, but I didn't stay in AA the first time I walked in (or the 2nd, the 3rd...). You and your sister need a dose of reality - sober, jail/hospital or death. And in the short run if she doesn't go, it's #1 or #2. Be grateful - many people who need AA wrecked their car and survived, only to come out of a blackout the next day while sitting in jail and learn that they killed someone but have no memory of it. I pray that your sister finds what she needs and is willing to accept it. I pray that you won't allow your offense to kill your sister.

Sober since July 2, 1995 - only by the grace of a God that I didn't believe in at the time , the steps and the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous.

Joe W.


EDIT:
Since she's not going anyway, what's the problem? I assume irresposable means irresponsible. Since that's the case, she'll soon get a taste of jail time the next time she gets a DWI & we'll see what happens from there. I'm afraid she's in for a long hard road like most of us. Let her do what she needs to do so that she feels the pain as quickly as possible & has to deal with it.

Answer 11

Sure. Skip the meeting, get held in contempt of court, and go straight to jail instead.

Which is worse, being forced to set at an offensive meeting for a few hours a week, or serving time in jail?

That's what the Judge will probably ask.

Then she will have legal standing to challenge her unlawful imprisonment in the appellate court (which might rule aganist her).

Second DWI? She got off lightly.