A quick question for Catholics?

Question

Are there any Biblical verses justifying a belief in Purgatory and praryers to Mary and saints?

Let's leave the book of Maccabees out of the details because it isn't accept in the canon of either Protestants or Jews, the authors of the Old Testament.

Answer 1

Sorry about the long answer to your quick question.

+ Purgatory +

The concept of purgation is hinted at in the Bible. Here are a couple of places:

"But if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire." 1 Cor 3:15

"So that the genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold that is perishable even though tested by fire, may prove to be for praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ." 1 Pet 1:7

Are you perfect now? Most people would say no.

Will you be perfect in heaven? Most people believe yes.

Purgatory (or purgation) is the process of God's love changing our imperfect selves on earth into perfect beings in heaven. Depending on the amount of change needed by different people, this can be an easy or slightly harder process. Everyone in purgatory is on his or her way to heaven. I do not think Mother Teresa of Calcutta had a very hard time of it.

+ Saints +

Technically there were no saints in heaven until Jesus was crucified, died, and rose from the dead. So it would be hard to find Old Testament Scriptures that talk about the Communion of Saints.

However Revelation 8:3-4 talks about the prayers of the saints in heaven raising to God, "Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne. The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel."

Catholics share this belief in the Communion of Saints with many other Christians, including the Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, and Episcopal Churches.

The Communion of Saints is the belief where all saints are intimately related in the Body of Christ, a family. When you die and go to heaven, you do not leave this family.

Everyone in heaven or on their way to heaven are saints. You, me, my deceased grandmother, Mary the mother of Jesus, and Mother Teresa.

As part of this family, you may ask your family and friends here on earth to pray for you. Or you may also ask the Blessed Virgin Mary, Saint Andrew, or your deceased grandmother in heaven to pray for you.

+ Sources of Doctrine +

The Catholic Church does not only use Holy Scripture for the basis of doctrine. The early Catholic church existed before and during the time that the New Testament was written (by Catholics).

Catholics also believe that the Holy Spirit was guiding the early church (and is guiding the church today) to make the correct choices about things like
- The Holy Trinity (which is also only hinted at in the Bible)
- Going to church on Sunday instead of Saturday (which is actually directly against one of the ten commandments)
- Which books to include in the New Testament?
- How do our imperfect selves on earth get to be perfect in heaven? (Purgatory)
- What is our relationship with our fellow Christians who have died since Jesus' Resurrection?

Things that are even more modern like
- Slavery is bad. Slavery is never declared evil in the Bible. This is one of the justifications for slavery in the Confederate States.
- Democracy is good. The Bible states that either God should be the leader of the nation like Israel before the kings or kings should be the leader, "Give to Caesar that which is Caesar's." This was talked about a lot during the American Revolution.

This second source of doctrine is called Holy Tradition.

With love in Christ.

Answer 2

---Is Catholic--

Below is many many bible verses that disprove any idea about there not being any verse that support Purgatory or prayers to Mary and the Saints.

You are under 2 false assumptions:

1. That the OT is Hebrew only. That is not true. Jesus and the apostles used the Greek texts, knew them and quoted from them. See for yourself here
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/deuterocanon.html
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/septuagint.html
Secondly, do you even know how the Hebrew only OT was Canonized? It was done after the destruction of the Jewish Temple by the surviving Pharisees and Sadducees as a means to preserve their Judaism and to distance themselves from the early Christians because the Greek longer Canon contains texts that more clearly show that Jesus was the Messiah. The early Christians always knew what their scriptures were and they always included the Greek.

2.) Your second false assumption is that "only the Bible says" and if it is not in the Bible, then it isn't true. That is just silly. Read John 20:31...there are plenty of other verses that say "not everything is written down". Also consider whole rites and rituals of both Christianity and Judaism are not found within the scriptures.

BTW Catholics don’t believe something because it is in the bible, but rather it is in the bible because we believed it. Catholic theology isn’t based on using the bible as a “proof text”, but rather the proof is in the living Faith which is grounded on Christ, as source, sustainer, and consummate. The Bible is at the heart of the Catholic life, but it is not the source of our life. It is impossible to separate the Bible (revelation) from the Catholic life as they are intertwined. Thus the Bible cannot be pitted against tradition, nor can tradition be pitted against scripture.

but since you wanted "proof texts" (sticking to the Protestant Canon)
Purgatory
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html

Mary,
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html

Answer 3

I am sorry, but your prejudice against the Book of Maccabees is unwarranted. It was a part of the Septuagint, the version of the Sacred Scriptures that was quoted most extensively in the New Testament (even by Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself). It is a part of the Canon of Scriptures which the Church gives us. Remember, it is the Church that determined which books were to be considered as divinely inspired. The Scriptures come from the Church, and not vice-versa.

Secondly, you are wrong in claiming that the Protestants and/or the Jews are the authors of Sacred Scripture. God is the Author of the Sacred Scriptures. And He gives us the Scriptures, His Written Word, through His Church. He who listens to the Church listens to Christ; he who rejects the Church rejects Christ.

I hope this helps you in your search for the Truth. God bless.

Answer 4

There are almost zero biblical references (Canonical texts only) regarding prayers to Mary and to the saints.

Holy Tradition developed prayers asking Mary and the saints to intercede before The Father, Son and Holy Spirit in Heaven.

The Eastern Orthodox do not believe in Purgatory.

-Ted

Answer 5

I am also an ex catholic and this is one of the main reasons why I left. Because they took intecessory prayer and twisted it for their own financial gain. The bible also talks about don't be a hypocrite and repeat your prayers over and over and what does the catholic church say whe you have gone to confession. Say the hail Mary 20 times. Salvation comes from faith and not works... 20 hail mary's isnt going to get you into heaven. I dont know why purgatory was invented... i dont know that there was ever any mention of it in the bible... I do know that back in the time of Martin Luther the catholic church would SELL penances that would supposedly shorten your time or your relatives time in purgatory so that they can get into heaven already. Im not knocking all catholics. For hundreds of years that was the way to know christ, I believe that there can be saved catholics, they have faith and believe that Jesus did raise from the dead. This was the only christian religion for hundreds of years.

Answer 6

There are no verses justifying prayer to Mary and to the saints. That's why we Catholics don't pray to them.

It's a common misconception that Catholics pray TO Mary and the saints. We ask them to pray for us. There's a difference.

As for purgatory -- it isn't mentioned by name in the Bible. But neither is the Trinity or the Incarnation, but all Christians believe in them.

Lk 12:59 tells us that it is between the individual judgment and the general judgment that the soul expiates its sins: "I tell you, you will not get out (of prison) till you have paid the last penny."

In Mt 12:32 Christ refers to the sinner for whom "there is no forgiveness, either in this world or in the world to come."

This means that expiation can occur after death -- but it cannot occur in Heaven (it's not needed there) or in Hell (it's not possible there). There must be a "third place."

1 Cor 3:15 tells us that if a man's work fails the test, "He will be the loser, but he himself will be saved, though only as men are saved by passing through fire."

This penalty cannot refer to consignment to hell -- no one is saved there. Nor can it refer to heaven, since there is no penalty to be paid and no suffering ("fire") there.

Like Mt 12:32, 1 Cor 3:15 must be referring to a third state.

Finally, 2 Macc 12:46 says "It is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from their sins."

These "dead" cannot refer to people in hell, since no amount of praying for them can help them.

Nor can it refer to people in heaven -- they don't need to be loosed from their sins because they already have been loosed from them.

2 Macc 12:46, as the other two verses, refer to a third state.

True, 2 Maccabees was removed from the Bible by Protestant "reformers" -- probably because of its direct reference to purgatory and to the souls there.

Answer 7

No....but the funny thing about the Protestant fixation on scripture is that the entire Bible was canonized by the heads of the early Catholic church. All Protestant religions are based on a book that CATHOLICS deemed 'appropriate' or 'divinely inspired.' I just find it funny. I'm not implying at all that Catholics are right and Protestants are wrong or vice versa, but the fact is that Protestants rely on what the Catholics said was ok to believe in.

Answer 8

I am not Catholic but I have had this discussion with various co workers who are. As far as purgatory goes there is no scripture that supports it. When you die you go to one of two places-Heaven or Hell. Those who have accepted Jesus as their Savior will go to Heaven. Their sins have been covered by the blood of Jesus. (refer to Romans, Hebrews, Ephesians for more indepth support). Those who have not accepted Jesus, will go to Hell forever shut out from fellowship with God. That is what the Bible teaches. You don't get a second chance.

As far as asking Mary and the Saints to pray for us, once again is not found in scripture. For the person who posted with scripture references from the book of Psalms, those scriptures didn't support your arguement for asking Mary and the saints to pray for you. The Bible teaches that when you pray God hears your prayers. Jesus Christ is standing in heaven pleading on our behalf. So if Jesus is in heaven praying for us, why do we need to ask Mary or the saints to pray for us?

So to some this all up in a short sentence: No there is no Bibilical verses supporting Purgatory or prayers to Mary and the saints.

Answer 9

Church teaching. we believe that people with any stain of sin, no matter how small, cannot enter heaven. Therefore, purgatory exsists to cleanse the soul before heaven. Its much better than going to hell! We believe that Mary and the Saints are so holy that they went to heaven, so we ask for their prayers and their help in our day to day lives.

I'm sorry i could no quote a verse for you, but this is just how Catholics see these things.

Have a nice day!

Answer 10

Prayers to Saints I will have to check on, but no on the purgatory part. From a Catholic perspective however, whether or not it is in the Bible is irrelevant.

Well I was thinking about it and, for Catholics, praying to a saint to intercede on your behalf is tantamount to asking a friend to pray for you.