Try to follow me: So if Peter was a follower of Christ ...?

Question

And Jesus said "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18) (the critical passage of scripture for the establishment of the authority claims of the Roman Catholic Church) ...

And Constantine, the first Christian emperor of Rome, co-author of the Edict of Milan, who convened and oversaw the Council of Nicea which was responsible for developing the Nicean Creed, central to doctrine of Christianity ...

And who also commissioned the building of many Christian churches, including one at the alleged tomb of St. Peter known as St. Peter's bascilica, which became part of the seat of the Roman Catholic church ...

And the Catholic Church was the original, official Church ...

And the term Catholic means "universal" ...

(and I'm talking centuries before the rise of Protestanism)

How is it that many Christians now claim that the Catholic Church is not Christian?

Which church/denom. IS "Christian"?

Mr. Mister: I've been in a Catholic church all of three times in my life:

once because I had to attend mass with my Catholic girlfriend and her family

once because my best friend was Catholic and his wedding was held in the Catholic church

and once because I was asked to attend my wife's God daughter's First Communion.

I was trying trying to strive for balance between historical events and religious beliefs.

Answer 1

Let's turn to Jesus for the answer as the Church should have / be doing always:

Jesus said:

"I am the good sheperd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be ONE flock, ONE sheperd." - John 10:14-16 (ESV)

My very good friend who is definitely my brother in Christ is a Catholic and I am a Protestant if we must use labels. But I believe that we are neither. We are followers of Jesus just as Peter was since the day Jesus told him to come with him.

God knows your heart. That's all that matters, not the opinions of men.

God bless.

Answer 2

I believe that the rock Jesus refers to in Matthew 16:15-19 is the confession that He is the Christ, the Son of the living God. That is the foundation that the Church is built on, not Peter. I don't see any scriptural basis for the hierarchy of the Catholic church.

The Catholic (or Universal) church in the New Testiment is made up of all the saints. The church that calls itself the "Catholic church" is not the original church. Just look at the NT church and you will see that Catholicism branched off from it.

Martin S. posted a question in response to a similar question. He made several really good points. Hopefully, he'll see this and post them here. But if not, this is a link to the question: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/;_ylt=AoxL7MXn0GfSgQWWrZ1wisDsy6IX?qid=20060723210020AAFbfsK

God said there would always be a faithful remnant. Those who belong to Him, follow His word. Which means they have to know His word. Another reason for the reformation movement. We can go back to God's instructions much as Israel did when they found the 10 commandments and copies of the law that had been lost. They started over with His word even though for generations they had not kept it. The original church is the one the Apostles helped establish. We can look to their example for what we should be doing today.

Answer 3

--Is Catholic--

The Catholic Church teaches that if you have a Trinitarian Baptism, then you are officially and eternally a Christian (there are plenty of Christians in hell btw). So any group of people that practice Trinitarian Baptism is Christian no matter how messed up their beliefs might be.

What is important though, is the question, WHICH CHRISTIANS ARE LIVING OUT THE CHRISTIAN LIFE?

If we turn to Acts 2:42 we find how the very very early Christians lived out the Christian life.
1. Devotion to the teachings of the Apostles (not just the Gospels but the whole teachings) and those whom they appointed to lead the flock
2. Devotion to the fellowship of the faithful, the union of people in the Holy Spirit which builds up the Church with faith and good works.
3. Devotion to the Eucharist, or the Sacrifice of the Altar, the eating of Christ's Body and Blood taken oh so literarily as once notices if one reads Jn 6 and 1 Cor in the Greek.
4. Devotion to the prayers, which is those liturgical things beyond the Mass, including the sacraments, prayers to Saints, praying of the OT and then later praying of the NT.

If we take this and read really really early Christian works by people who knew and talked with the Apostles, we can see that early Church was Catholic. This is very clear when we read St. Ignatius of Antioch, St. Pope Clement of Rome, etc. that as St. Paul lived and as St. John lived, the Christians living understood themselves and their community as the Catholic Church understands herself today. If you read the Gospels and the later NT letters within their historical continuity, the Protestant interpretations that we are used to drop away and it is very impressive how Catholic the Gospels and the NT are. There really is no room to read them in a Protestant light.

Anybody who says that Matt. 16:18 doesn't mean that Peter is the Rock, cannot read ancient Greek of the late 1st century. They are only parroting back what people have told them. In the Greek of that time, petra does not mean small pebble, it just means rock. It had been centuries since it meant small pebble. Besides, if you read the bible you would know that Simon wasn't named Peter by Christ but was named Kepha which is Aramaic, the language that Jesus spoke with the Apostles and the Language that the Gospel of Mathew was written in. This is translated into Greek as Cephas, and is how St. Paul referred to him (go look at St. Paul's writings). This word has always meant rock. The Orthodox Church's agree with this (always have) but they disagree as to the extent of the powers of the Chair of Peter.

Those Christians who think that the Catholic Church is not Christian, do so because they have not read their history. They have no idea what the early Church was actually like. The Catholic Church is historically THE Church and the beliefs are historical the same.

Protestant might disagree with the beliefs of the Catholic Church and say they are wrong, but it is not rational or logical to say that the Catholic Church doesn't believe the way the early Christians did.

BTW Catholics don’t believe something because it is in the bible, but rather it is in the bible because we believed it. Catholic theology isn’t based on using the bible as a “proof text”, but rather the proof is in the living Faith which is grounded on Christ, as source, sustainer, and consummate. The Bible is at the heart of the Catholic life, but it is not the source of our life. It is impossible to separate the Bible (revelation) from the Catholic life as they are intertwined. Thus the Bible cannot be pitted against tradition, nor can tradition be pitted against scripture.

Answer 4

The "rock" mentioned in that verse is NOT Peter!!!! The word translated "rock" is the feminine noun [petra], meaning bedrock or foundation, and it refers to the statement that Peter made (that Jesus is the Son of the Living God). The word translated "Peter" is a masculine noun [petros], meaning a pebble, so they could not possibly refer to the same thing.

Christ did not build His ONE church on Peter & Peter was not a "pope." 1) He was married; 2) there's no BIBLICAL evidence that he ever went anywhere near Rome; 3) he refused to let anyone bow down before him (see Acts 10).

I fail to see how commissioning buildings makes any church more Biblical than another--sorry don't understand that part of your argument.

True Christianity follows no creed but the Bible, including the so-called "nicean creed." The fact that the catholic church does follow this man-made creed proves that it could not be the church of the New Testament. By the same rule, there is no protestant "denomination" that can claim to be the one true church of the Bible, because they all follow man-made creeds to some extent, whether it be Luther or Calvin or Smith.

To find the one true church, one must return to the Bible, and the Bible only--look for Bible names (for the body and its members) and Bible practices (no clergy/laity system, prayer only through Jesus' name, singing only, baptism of obedient believers only).

Answer 5

Because you're ignoring the hundreds and hundreds of years in which Catholicism made up dogmas, rituals, beliefs and practices which are pagan, idolatrous, selfish, and sinful. What the Church once was and what it became are two very different things. The Catholic Church perverted the Gospel to make itself an economic and political power and hoarde worldly goods for themselves. The Vatican is one of the richest entities in the world, and it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven.

And what about the Orthodox Church? Catholic may mean universal, but Orthodox means "right teaching?" The name doesn't mean jack squat. You can call it whatever you want, but if you pray to false gods and pursue legalism, claim that you are the mediator between God and humanity when only Jesus can ever fulfil that role, adorn yourself and your places of worship with gold while thousands go starving in your city, and committing massive conspiracy to cover up the abuse of countless children, you are about as great an example of Christian hypocrisy as can exist.

Answer 6

There is a difference between true Christianity and apostate Christianity.
True Christianity's teachings are pure and straight from God's Word.They have not been tainted with pagan or man made doctrines.
Apostate Christianity on the other hand, is rife with pagan teachings and man made doctrines.
Eg.immortuality of the soul,hellfire,trinity,idol worship,praying to saints,praying to Mary, etc etc
Jesus foretold of this apostasy and it blossomed in the second and third centuries CE(Mat.13:37,38;Acts20:29,30;
2Thess.2:3-12;2Peter2:1-3)
Apostate Christianity made compromises with the Roman world,adopted its pagan festivals and its philosophy,and accepted not only civil service but also militiary service.
Toward the end of the fourth century CE,this adulterated ,compromising form of Christianity became the State religion of the Roman Empire.
Throughout its history,Christendom-
represented by the Catholic,Orthodox,and Protestant Churches-has continued to compromise with the State,getting deeply involved in its politics and supporting it in its wars.Many sincere church members who have been shocked by this would doubtless be pleased to know that there are Christians today who hold to the position of the first century Christians in their relationship with the State and God.
This is the only true unadulterated religion whose teachings are solely from the Bible.They are Jehovah's Witnesses.

Answer 7

Wow what alot of info for a question that is so easy to answer! What Jesus was referring to in the passage Matt.16:18 is Peter's knowledge of Jesus being the Son of Man. Jesus wasn't referring to Peter being the rock.
Yes, I know peter means rock. It was his understanding through the Holy Spirit, that Jesus was talking about.
So in answer to your question, the true church.... Is the kingdom of God.
When you become a believer in Jesus you are baptized into the kingdom. That is the first baptism.
Denominations are all filled with traditions of man. I prayed til the Lord showed me which church I would find where I was to be the most use.

hope that helps, be blessed in Jesus!

Answer 8

Personally, I believe that since in the Bible it states that forgiveness comes only through Christ that the Catholic church is wrong to believe that you can have forgiveness by paying a penance or asking a Priest instead of Christ. Since this goes against what Christ said, that is why a lot of people think the Catholic Church is "not Christian".

Answer 9

Sorry, but I am protestant and I believe the Catholic church is equal in footing to many of the protestant denominations (I say some, because I would not want to lower the Catholic faith to some of these "churches").

At issue is that there are several items that the Catholic church believes in that Protestants don't. Such as intercession of the saints, confession, and purgatory to name a few. There are items that the Protestants don't agree with between themselves.

The primary issue is that you believe in Christ was/is God, born of a virgin, died on a cross for our sins, and resurrected on the third day

Answer 10

the catholic church, according to many, has lost it's way. This was first evident by the avaliabily of indulgences, and events such as the crusades. It seems they have become too wrapped up in doctorines and laws and traditions, and forgot about Jesus!