Whats so wrong with Science diet? More to food than ingredients.?

Question

Its disturbing the attitude that I have encountered toward vets and the recommendation of science diet food(only one of many) Vets ARE indeed trained and consistently educated in nutrition(sheesh its one of the MAJOR aspects of medicine) so where some of you get the impression that they are not..you need to research. Science diet is not crap and vets(at least the several that I have worked with) dont get the huge reward that you think for recommending science diet (again, one of many) Ive been a tech for years and we are CONSTANTLY receiving continuing education in nutrition from veterinary medical associations and brands arent mentioned unless specifically asked about. Research about nutrients, not the ingredients. They only deliver. Its insulting that anyone would imply that someone in my profession would push a food for monetary benefit(or free pens). I didnt go into this business for wealth and anyone who researchs veterinary medicine, including your average DVM degree, would agree

Ground corn meal is a source of EFA and also a urinary acidifier(WAY important with cats) Im aware of the metabolic processes of cats and the needs of obligate carnivores. The ideal diet of a cat is one mouse a day...obviously not practical. The protein requirements isnt as simple as listing "chicken" as the 1st ingredient on a bag of food. That is packaged well to the owner looking for "human grade" ingredients-may not be the best interest of the pet. "Natural" and "holistic" use scare tactics on unsuspecting owners. I know what by products are and what they are comprised of. I also know that canine relatives eat the stomach contents in addition to muscle meats of prey animals to aquire necessary nutrients. Not pretty but certainly "natural" I respect the opinions of owners in their choices of nutriton as I believe no premium pet food manufactuer would intentionally harm an animal. They have severe regulations to abide by. I choose to educate and leave the owner to decide.

Answer 1

Well, you can read any question that I have answered and you will know how I feel about Science Diet. I know that there are people out there whose dogs do well on it and that is fine but I can't trust a company that is willing to use the ingredients that Science Diet uses. Here are some points that you have forgotten to mention while going on about vets:

1. Number one and MOST important is that the MAJORITY of vets will tell you that they receive little to no training in nutrition. This is NOT a myth because vets will admit to this. Granted, there are vets emerging these days who specialize in holistic healing so they tend to have a more comprehensive knowledge about the benefits of food and our health. Think about it this way...if you have nutritional problems does your doctor deal with them or do they send you to a nutritionist? Traditional medicine does NOT deal with nutrition as a prevention method. I have studied Health Promotion and Disease Prevention and trust me, I'm critical of doctors as well as vets.

2. One thing that you neglected to mention that I don't think most people recognize is that ALL of nutrition courses in the Veterinary colleges in the US are funded by Science Diet!!!! So, they tell you what to believe and then you go out and preach it. If Natura (makers of Innova) were funding these courses then you might actually understand the benefits of using whole fresh ingredients in pet foods instead of by-products of diseased animals and low quality grains.
"Hill's has spent a generation cultivating its professional following. It spends hundreds of thousands of dollars a year funding university research and nutrition courses at every one of the 27 U.S. veterinary colleges. Once in practice, vets who sell Science Diet and other premium foods directly from their offices pocket profits of as much as 40%"

3. The MAJORITY of people who feed good quality foods that use human grade ingredients DO do their research and that is why they know that foods like Innova, Wellness, Solid Gold, etc are far superior to the mass produced products.

4. Most disturbing to me is the fact that if you are claiming that vets truly care about a pets health WHY do the vet prescription diets STILL have BHA and BHT in them? These are CANCER causing chemical preservatives!! I would NEVER put my pet on a food that still has such an ingredient in it. It is horrible. Even if you don't look at the other bad ingredients in the food, it still has chemical preservatives in it.

5. The last point that I want to make is that vets DO make a huge profit on pet foods. I have been in the pet food industry for a long time both as an employee and now owning my own business. I sell Natura pet foods and I can tell you that the average pet food retailer makes NO money on pet food (it comes from accessories). While the majority of vets mark up their foods 40-50%, retail stores only make about 5-15%. So, when I tell people that I am in the pet food business because I truly care about pet nutrition and disease prevention, I can say that because I know I will never get rich, I just want to make sure people can access good quality food. If vets truly cared about pet health, WHY are they putting people in the poorhouse with their unbelievably high food prices? Really they should be selling them at cost.

I have a great deal of respect for vets as medical professionals but as health promoters, there aren't too many that have justified to me that they really care about the nutrion/prevention side. Personally, I think that end should be left to those who work with pets on a day to day basis and not just when their sick.

As BadGirl said, this is a controversial topic that will never be resolved. There is no perfect answer but if you want to truly understand pet nutrition beyond "the nutrients" you need to get away from Science Diet.

sorry this is such a hurtful topic as none of us intend to be offensive. It's just that pet nutrition is evolving and some of us just want the best.

Answer 2

It amazes me that people believe that holistic or whole foods approach is better for animals than time proven, medically researched diets. Call any veterinary university and ask what they feed, I can bet that none are feeding anything other than the top brands in the field. (Science Diet and Iams). As to the problems of not "curing" the problem, a study was released 2 years ago in a major veterinary journal that showed the leading cause (by %70) of so called veterinary diet not working was non compliance by owners, ie giving snacks and human food. Prescription Diets are prescribed for a reason, each is specifically formulated for a certain illness or stage in life. To the writer who feeds their pet raw meat, how can you feel good about putting your pet at risk every meal time? Dogs have been domesticated for thousands of years, and are no longer wild beasts that require the amount of energy required from an all protein diet.

Answer 3

U mentioned research the nutrients and not the ingrediants. With all do respect to u the nutrients are in the ingrediants. Science diet is alot better than alot of the foods on the market, but it is not necessarily the best food out there. My dogs will not even eat this food and neither will alot of other peoples dogs i know.
You are a vet tech and u believe in what u believe and have learned, but everybody is taught many differant things, and that does not necessarily mean it is a good thing. I personally do not believe in dog food and i feed mine the raw diet which vets will say this is not a good diet. It is a good diet as i have 10 dogs and NONE of them have any health issues at all. They go to my vet f
or their wormings and annual shots and he says to stick to doing what i am doing as my dogs are extremely healthy. There is alot of people that believe in science diet and there is alot that do not and believe in the raw like i do and you have those that believe strictly in iams or eukanuba. It depends on the certain individual and their beliefs. It is nothing to really get offended over as u believe what u have been taught and others believe in their own. This is going to forever be a contriversial subject and it will never change. I do not trust the makers of petfood and never will. not after what has BEEN TAUGHT AND TOLD of the poisons that are put into petfood. Did u know that euthanized animals dogs and cats have been known to be ground up in pet foods? people go by statistics and reports. My dad fed his dog diamond dogfood and guess what he died. When? when the dogfood was contaminated and killed peoples pets. Diamond is not a good dog food but people trust what they buy and this is what happens.

coley, U ask how i can feed my dog raw meat? well i have done this diet for 10 years and have never had any health problems what so ever. I cook for my dogs and feed them raw and just because the dog has been domesticated does not mean raw is not better. How many people feed theirs science diet, iams, eukanuba, and etc. and their pets are sick due to cancer, allergies, and etc. If this is such a good food then they would not be sick. If ny diet i feed mine is bad then whay haven't they been sick and news flash, they have never been sick. so...... u want 2 dog the raw meat diet, seems 2 be working better for my dogs then commercial dogfoods other people feed theirs. Everyone has differant opinions in what is best for their dogs, and u have yours and i have mine. I have a sheltie that has ate this food for 10 years now and she is 18 in human years, she had alot of problems with skin problems and allergies until i started feeding the raw and now she has no problems whatsoever and the food she was on before, (science diet) as this is the food the people i got her from fed her and i stuck to it until i figured out the food was actually making her sick.I also fed the raw to my min pin that died of old age of 19. I have a chow right now that is 15 so if this is such a bad diet how come my dogs live a healthy life and live to exceed their lifespan.

Answer 4

I'm going with a cat food science diet answer here, but the #1 no-no is Corn. Cats should not eat corn. Its generally genetically modified and cats are meat eaters. Their systems are not set up to process corn. Most cat foods on the market have a little bit of something good, corn as a filler, and then "supplements" of what a cat (or dog if that is the case) should have. It is really not a good food. Most foods on the market are not (not just for pets, for humans too). Flip the bag over and really look at the ingredients. Then look those ingredients up and see where they are sourced. If you are not afraid, you should be.

I work in the medical field, and I would say that 90% of what the doctor tells you is good for you is probably not. Whole foods are good for you, not supplements. Just because fluoride makes strong teeth does not mean that the toxic by-product of the fertilizer industry version of fluoride is good for you. Look it up, causes all kinds of problems from fluoridosis to osteosarcoma. I could go on and on here.

Cats should be eating meat, that is what they are built for. Dogs, well, they are omnivores, but even then, fillers with added "nutrition" is not the way to go.

Answer 5

Well, I have to tell you. Science Diet is not crap, it's just not the best food out there. They are, as far as I know, the only company that makes h/d for dogs with congestive heart failure. I really wish MORE companies would make food without salt in it. My dog vomited daily on Science Diet-at first I thought it was because he was a puppy and ate inappropriate things. After switching him to Canidae, it stopped IMMEDIATELY. He is almost 2 years old and the difference in him since switching is tremendous. His coat is gorgeous, no vomiting and his muscles just ripple. He also has more energy (some days I don't know if that is a good thing!). My 2 elderly dogs with bad hearts I switched over very slowly to Canidae and they are doing fine. As long as there are dogs, there will be debate on what to feed them. I also know that their stool no longer smells. More dog companies need to step up to the plate and make foods without wheat products in them. I have seen time and time again how many dogs are allergic to wheat products and food dyes. I think that when Science Diet came out it probably WAS the best thing out there. But lots of things have changed since then and after doing much research I KNOW there are better things to feed your dog. I am not suggesting that vets promote it because they get a kick-back but more likely because they have stocked it since it came out. Oh, and in some states, continuing education does not seem to be mandatory to keep a license. And after being in the human medicine side of things for 25 years before going to the veterinary side, I can tell you that much research is slanted (depending on who's paying for it) and sales people are BIASED- after all, what they sell is their bread and butter. I also did not go from the human side of medicine to the animal end to get rich-we all know which end the money is at (although around here the vets build and sell condos on the bay). We are a very poor, rural area and I wish we could afford to pay our animal care techs what they are worth. They are not in it for the money ( they can make more at McDonalds) but because they love animals.

Answer 6

Very well said! We sell several veterinary diets and it's a hassle storing them and lugging them around, but they are necessary. We make very little off of them, and they are a tiny piece of our practice income. Wouldn't even sell them if they weren't needed for various health reasons. Vet's and their support staff recieve tons of continuing education on nutrition, and this has nothing to do with the foods we sell. Trust your vet! :)

Answer 7

WELL I THINK SCIENCE DIET IS OVER RATED

IT CONTAINS ANIMAL PARTS THAT ARE NOT MENTIONED IN DETAIL.

MY PUPS ONLY GET ALL ORGANIC DOG FOOD.
KARMA
IM SURE YOU HAVE HEARD OF IT
A HOLISTIC APPROACH TO ALL IS THE BEST

Answer 8

Science Diet lamb and rice (dog)

Ingredients
Lamb Meal, Brewers Rice, Rice Flour, Ground Whole Grain Wheat, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Corn Gluten Meal, Cracked Pearled Barley, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken Liver Flavor, Soybean Oil, Dried Beet Pulp, Potassium Chloride, Flaxseed, Iodized Salt, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, L-Lysine, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Niacin, Folic Acid, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, Glucosamine Hydorchloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Carnitine, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

Nutrient

Protein 19.0 Minimum
Fat 13.0 Minimum
Carbohydrate (NFE) 49.2
Crude Fiber 3.0 Maximum
mg/100 kcal3
Calcium 0.70 Minimum
Phosphorus 0.40 Minimum
Sodium 0.24
Potassium 0.66
Magnesium 0.089
Carnitine 200 ppm Minimum





Performatrin Ultra (dog)

Lamb
Lamb Meal
Whole Brown Rice
Whole Barley
Whole Rice
Oatmeal
Whole Rye
Menhaden Fish Meal
Sunflower Oil stabilized with a natural source of Vitamin E
Dried Egg Product
Alfalfa Meal
Fresh Whole Sweet Potatoes
Fresh Whole Carrots
Fresh Whole Apples
Peas
Whole Flaxseed
Kelp
Sea Salt
Whole Blueberries
Potassium Chloride
Spinach
Chicory Root Extract (Prebiotic)
Garlic
Lactobacillus Acidophilus (Probiotic)
Bacillus Subtilis (Probiotic)
Bifidobacterium Thermophilum (Probiotic)
Bifidobacterium Longum (Probiotic)
Enterococcus Faecium (Probiotic)
Brewers Dried Yeast
DL-Methionine
Taurine
Yucca Schidigera Extract
Lecithin
Ascorbyl Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C)
Zinc Amino-Acid Complex (source of Chelated Zinc)
Choline Chloride
Iron Amino-Acid Complex (source of Chelated Iron)
Vitamin E Supplement
Rosemary
Manganese Amino-Acid Complex (source of Chelated Manganese)
Basil
Sage
Copper Amino-Acid Complex (source of Chelated Copper)
Dandelion
Vitamin B12 Supplement
Vitamin A Supplement
Niacin
Calcium Pantothenate
Vitamin D3 Supplement
Riboflavin
Folic Acid
Pyridoxine Hydrochloride
Thiamine Hydrochloride
Biotin
Beta Carotene
Cobalt Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Cobalt)
Potassium Iodide
Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K activity)
Selenium Yeast (source of Organic Selenium)

Guaranteed Analysis
NUTRIENT
Crude Protein 22.0% min
Crude Fat 12.0% min
Crude Fiber 4.0% max
Moisture 10.0% max
Calcium 1.2% min
Phosphorus 1.0% min
Vitamin E 150 IU/kg min
Omega 6 Fatty Acids* 2.5% min
Omega 3 Fatty Acids* 0.5% min


Hmm.... I wonder what makes people think that science diet isnt very good compared to other foods..... Maybe because it is not nearly as good! I mean seriously who thinks a dog will choose science diet over the second food listed? I swear, this kind of food is crap I mean WTF! I worked at a pet store and had to help people all the time because the vet said Science diet and the dogs were still suffering from the conditions this food was supposed to "clear up" according to the vet. Good for you in your education too bad you havent seen the cause and effect of you crappy vet proscribed food..... Didnt help any of the dogs I ever encountered, every single person who used to feed their dog science diet after switching to something like Nutro or Performatrin was so astonished by the obvious improvement in thier dogs health that they all went and asked the vet why?? Why did you proscribe such a food that kept my dog sick??? The vet has never and will never have a good answer because if you were taught about all foods and not just the ones vets use you would see the difference and know it!!

PS my dog had diarrheoa for the first 5 months of living with me because of vet recommended diets, it wasnt until I was trained in canine nutrition at work that I learned why and switched his food to another brand that cleared his chronic problem within a week, If I had listened to the vet my dog would still be sick now...so I tend to disagree with you after all I have seen an experienced myself and also the experiences of all my customers whos dogs were kept ill because of vet diets!!