Would you agree with the following statement?
An intelligent creator created all of the complexity that we see today because complexity requires intelligence to create it.
If yes then
If complexity cannot arise without intelligence, then who created the intelligent creator? The creator could not spring into existence if complexity requires intelligence.
What could be more complex than God?
Therefore, God is impossible.
2006-07-23 15:09:08 · 23 answers · asked by downdrain 4 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
Well, I don't believe that you can every prove that something does not exist.....but, your argument is very logical. I'm agnostic, so I don't believe I can know for sure whether or not god exists. I can hope for things, and I can live my life being the best person I can be, treating others the way that I want to be treated, but I can't KNOW that that will do me any good in the after life. I HOPE it will though. I couldn't be mean anyway.
2006-07-23 15:15:00 · answer #1 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 3⤋
OK, God is impossible then. Now what? We're still left with the question of the origin of matter.
From "A Brief History of Time," by Hawking:
[The idea that space and time may form a closed surface without boundary also has profound implications for the role of God in the affairs of the universe. With the success of scientific theories in describing events, most people have come to believe that God allows the universe to evolve according to a set of laws and does not intervene in the universe to break these laws. However, the laws do not tell us what the universe should have looked like when it started - it would still be up to God to wind up the clockwork and choose how to start it off. So long as the universe had a beginning, we could suppose it had a creator. But if the universe is really completely self-contained, having no boundaries or edge, it would have neither beginning nor end: it would simply be. What place, then, for a creator?]
We're still at square one, I suppose... - JWK
2006-07-23 22:24:34 · answer #2 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
If you want an actual answer that makes sense read this...
You say God is impossible because something had to create Him right...
but how do you explain the creation of the universe?
surly something so vast and detailed did not make itself...
a masterpiece of art work did not make itself from nothing...
OK here is my point, before creation there was no time, no begining or end... so God existed but did not have a begining...
it is a hard concept to wrap ones head around, but you see we here have a time to be born to live then to die, but before creation there was no time... the concept of a begining or end didn't exist- but only in God's mind...
So it was not one day, God created such ans such....
no, it was nothingness,-then in the begining, God created such an such....
He Him self conceived the idea of begining...
before there was time God existed.... you cannot measure the time between when God decided to create the universe and when He did... because there was no time.... so it was not an eternity of waiting before God acted in the creation- it was instant....
This is very deep... and hard to understand... but before the universe there was only God- He had no creator- He existed... that is why He calls Him self "I AM THAT I AM" or, I exist both in the past present and future...
WITHOUT His existance there would be nothing- no time- no darkness no light- no matter- no souls- no heaven- nothing...
He spoke into nothingness and the universe formed at His command...
He created everything with a predetermined age... even though all of it was seconds old.... This explains why you can see the stars millions of light years( time light takes to travel in a year) away without the universe being millions of years old. This explains why Adam and Eve were fully adult, but not even a week or so old... this also applyed to fully formed trees and animals and other things as well...
Therefore, without God, all things are immposible... and therefore do not exist....
This proves that God does exist...
May God bless you and give you understanding on this matter...
2006-07-23 22:44:11 · answer #3 · answered by Mr. Agappae 5 · 0⤊ 0⤋
You're thinking is too small.
The idea of a "beginning," or an "end" for that matter, only applies inside of the domain of time.
That which is outside of time (i.e. God) does not require, and cannot have a beginning. God is by his nature, the "uncaused cause."
It is pointless to ponder what happened "before" time began, as "before" is chronologically sequential; chronological sequence must by its nature exist within time.
Although it is difficult for us to grasp the concept of eternity, or infinity, it is not impossible. In our finiteness, it appears to us that everything Must have a beginning and an end; afterall, everything in our experience does, or so it seems.
However, we understand the concept in numbers; there can always be one more added. But the closest I believe we come to experiencing infinity is "now." "Now" has no beginning and no end. It is Always now; So infinitely short you can't pinpoint exactly when it is, but at the same time, "now" is so long it never ceases.
2006-07-23 22:53:34 · answer #4 · answered by sunflower_pyxie 2 · 0⤊ 0⤋
All this rhetoric about complexity being indicitive of intelligent design is very misleading. Consider a pile of jagged rocks... and among them, one rock which is a perfect sphere. The jagged rocks are complex, because they require a great deal of information to accurately describe them. The perfect sphere, on the other hand, is very simple... it can be accurately described with a single number and a simple formula.
So, what indicates intelligent design? The jagged rocks, or the perefect sphere?
2006-07-23 22:22:42 · answer #5 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
It is clear that you have forgotten one fundamental element to your discussion. That is the fact that God, as creator, was out side of the bounds of creation. Because God created everything, including time and space, and all the laws of nature and science, God is not bound to them and is outside of them. Therefore, He has no beginning, he has no end, as these relative terms do not convey His existence. His existence simply is, was, and will always be. And we know His name, which gives us a clue to His being, and His name is "I Am".
2006-07-23 22:25:14 · answer #6 · answered by Wishin' I was 2 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Dear Bob, lets take space for an example. Does space have an end? is there a huge brick wall that says "The end" on it? of course there is Not, and if there was then we would strech our minds to figure out what is beyond the brick wall. Same way with God, The Bible says he is the alpha and the omege (begginging and end.). thru faith we belive that space has no definant beginning and has no definate end, God has no begginging or end either. we cannot compare God to his creaton because the earth we live on that is subject to time and space was created by God and God therefore is outside the realm of space and time. In other words God can flip through history like we flip thru a book. he sees all that has happened and wil happen.
The Bible says that one day we will all die, and when we die we will stand before God on judgement day and give an account of every thought , word, and deed. The Ten Commandments wil be God's standard, so let's look at a few to see how you will do on judgement day.
Have you ever lied (even once--fibs, white lies, etc.)? Ever stolen (anything--the value is irrelevant)? Jesus said, "Whoever looks upon a woman to lust after her, has committed adultery already with her in his heart." Have you ever looked with lust? If you have said "Yes" to these three questions, by your own admission, you are a lying, thieving, adulterer at heart; and we’ve only looked at three of the Ten Commandments.
What a shock! Nothing you’ve ever done is hid from His holy eyes. Will you be innocent or guilty on the Day of Judgment? Listen to your conscience. You know that you will be guilty, and the Bible says that if God Judges you acording to your sin, you could end up in Hell. That’s not God’s will. He provided a way for you and I to be forgiven.
He sent His Son to take our punishment: "God commended His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." He was bruised for our iniquities. Jesus then rose from the dead and defeated death.
Your own so-called “goodness” can’t get you into heaven any more than mine could. Jesus is the only way to Heaven. He is the "Door," the only "mediator." There is salvation in no other name, so pray something like this: "Dear God, I repent of all of my sins (confess them). This day I put my trust in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. Please forgive me and grant me your gift of everlasting life. In Jesus’ name I pray. Amen."
2006-07-23 22:22:04 · answer #7 · answered by WDJD 3 · 0⤊ 0⤋
I agree with this statement.
But of course I am sure someone will say that god was always there which makes no sense what so ever. A lot of religious folks do not believe in complexity the way you speak of it.
2006-07-23 22:13:48 · answer #8 · answered by trevor22in 4 · 0⤊ 0⤋
You are looking from it from our perspective! That is why he seems impossible. God does not live in our universe and existed prior to us and after us...he has always and will always exists. He exists outside of time. Science once thought we had always existed and that of course has changed along with the many other changes to suit their needs as they go along. Meanwhile the Bible stays consistent and keeps being supported by science.
It's a beautiful thing!!!
2006-07-23 22:17:50 · answer #9 · answered by William H 3 · 0⤊ 0⤋
i recently read that the idea of cause and effect is an artifact of living in this universe. one of the laws of the universe is that effects stem from a cause. if god created this universe, it is meaningless to talk about the cause of god or god causing the universe because that comes from BEFORE our universe, before the land of cause and effect.
my dh (physicist) said today that our universe is probably a blip in our dimensions. scientists know there are more than a dozen dimensions and so we really have no clue about reality beyond our dimensions. somehow, in our dimensions, unity was shattered, matter and anti-matter sprayed everywhere, and this universe came into existance. i've heard all the matter and anti-matter in the universe add up to zero. our world is, essentially, an illusion. or, as dh corrected me, a blip.
2006-07-23 22:17:14 · answer #10 · answered by cassandra 6 · 0⤊ 0⤋