Your thoughts......?

Question

Bertrand Russell, Mathematician and Philosopher, stated:

"Religions, which condemn the pleasures of sense, drive men to seek the pleasures of power. Throughout history power has been the vice of the ascetic."

Your thoughts on this please?

Answer 1

We all crave to feel worthy, loved and important...all things associated with the ego. I think that the "power" that Russell speaks about is still associated with the ego. I think that a truly ascetic individual realizes how short lived these pleasures of the ego are, and delves inwards to feel the true power of the "self". This means he no longer needs to rely on external stimuli to make the "self" feel good. I heard it said somewhere in one of my philosophy classes that in order to feel the authentic beauty and splendour and power of the "self", one must give up the senses, give up the ego, so that we don't need to smell, taste, hear, see and touch to feel the true power within. In fact the senses tend to draw us into the external material world, where pleasure is short-lived, and we lose the ability to feel that eternal joy that lies within.

I really don't think that people who are upstanding religious figures are ascetic.

Answer 2

Bert had a great thought. I think Religion is the seeking of power. Each Religious Group, with varied dogma, are portraying the most powerful leader they can find, Joseph Smith, the Pope, The Mormon Leaders and even the Muslims They all Fancy following a Man, and even Protestants do this with Martin Luther and certain other leaders.. Jesus was a Man Anointed By God. Now is now A Spirit with a New Body, not of this Earth, the Senses are Flesh. and in this world we all seek the pleasures of the flesh. Christians Anointed with the Holy Spirit, know there are other "Exalted States "than the exalting of the Flesh. being built up in the Spirit. "No Vices there"

Answer 3

It obviously cannot be speaking of Christianity since:
1. Christianity is not a religion. Religions by their vary nature are based on works to achieve salvation or Heaven, this is not the tenet of Christianity.

2. Christianity does not condemn the pleasures of sense.

3. Christianity in its true form does drive men to seek pleasures of power, we are driven to humility before the cross and God. If a true believer does obtain some sort of power, he does so reluctantly and cautiously, knowing that ultimate power belongs to God and not him.

Therefore, this quote cannot be speaking of Christianity.

Answer 4

Dear Genaddt,

It would probably be more accurate to say that men have used religion to ascend to power. Or, that men desirous of power will use what tools at their disposal to achieve it.

But then, Russell was not at pains to defend this statement, nor is it obviously true on its face.


Blaise Pascal, Mathematician and Theologian, following Cicero, wrote:

"There is nothing so absurd that it has not been said by some philosopher."

-j.

Answer 5

It doesn't make sense... and it's not true... Religions that condemn the pleasures of the senses don't drive men to seek the pleasures of power.

Answer 6

I'm not sure I agree with it, most ascetics don't achieve power to my knowlege. So, is it a vice that is shared in equal measure by other groups? Then I would say it's a human trait, not necessarily caused by religion. Seeing things like corruption in church, the inquisition and such I can see how he would say this, but it seems a little broad to me. Though I haven't read the context or his argument so I'm just referring to this snippet.

Answer 7

religion is a mighty tool of those who seek power. to have god on your side is incredibly helpful, especially when you're ruling over those who are uneducated and superstitious.

religion denies pleasure to those who are subject to power, but those who have it don't need to subject themselves to the petty rules they come up with.
a good example is popes. good christians are supposed to give to the poor, pray, not have sex for pleasure, go to church, ect.
popes on the other hand fornicated like bunnies, had many children, were fat because they ate so much, had so many possessions they didn't know what to do with them all (has anyone seen the vatican?!), and best of all, slept in church cause they were having sex all night with their concubines. i took a medieval europe class in college and this is what some documents say about certain popes.
interesting, eh? and no one could touch them cause they were the pope.

Answer 8

Faith does not give you power, it gives you freedom. It gives you peace, not unrest. It is the handing over of what you considered power in yourself to the hands of the Most High. As a believer there are many pleasures of sense, all the more profound because of faith.

Answer 9

most definitely! It has been proved though some other studies that suppression of sexual desire only creates deviancy. They study looked at yogi's, priests and other religious sects that dictate celibacy for salvation. A good case in point is all the molestations perpetrated by Catholic priests.

Answer 10

I think this statement is saying that a loveless Religion hardens the heart, leads to self-discipline and denies one of self-pleasure.