God deliberately created the universe
Perfection entails the lack of needs or wants
Being perfect, God does not now nor ever has nor ever will have any needs or wants.
Deliberate creation entails an effort to satisfy some need or want.
Being a creator, God at one time had some need or want. It is impossible to have some need or want and also to never have any need or want.
Conclusion: God, if it exists, is either not perfect or has not created anything.
If God is perfect, then God can’t have any needs or wants; hence, God wouldn’t bother
2006-07-23 00:04:13 · 18 answers · asked by Mr. Mojo Risin 3 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
Damn you! Are you a lawyer or something? You just spoiled a lot of people's breakfast with your twisting and turning logic. Damn you! Now we've got to think about it.
2006-07-23 02:39:45 · answer #1 · answered by idspudnik 4 · 1⤊ 1⤋
Your definition of "perfection" is off just a little. While I can accept that, as the whole, mature, complete, perfect person, God has no NEEDS (being Life itself), that does not automatically exclude God, as Personhood, from having WANTS.
Desires/wants are not only biological in origin. A person may "want" a drink of water because their body "needs" fluids, for example. However, what is the biological basis for "wanting" another person's company? I'm not talking about sex! Consider friendship. What in your biology drives you to make friends, go bowling, see a really good movie, stay up all night playing cards, just hang out drinking beer and looking at the stars? Answer: NOTHING. There is no biological "need" for communal wants. We have such urges because we are communal beings: thinking, emotional people.
Your definition of perfection is coldly mechanical. Certainly a perfect machine would never "need" fuel or maintence, and would run indefinately, but such a machine is pure fantasy: nothing like it exists. Machines are not people. They do not have wants.
God is the ultimate Person. While He certainly does not have "needs", being the ultimate Source of all existence, He is not excluded from having "wants", as the Prototype of a rational, emotive Person would suggest.
Deliberate creation does NOT suggest an effort to satisfy a need. It may suggest a certain WANT (desire) of Someone Who is Life.
Perfection in Personhood does not exclude desire (wants).
Your hypothesis is in error.
2006-07-23 08:12:22 · answer #2 · answered by MamaBear 6 · 0⤊ 0⤋
God is perfect...God is LOVE...Love wants to give.. and can only do this by giving. God gives life. God is happy. He is happy because He gives, and I think he was happy when he was alone. God wants us to be happy, so he asks us to give back to him.
The world under Satan has the opposite point of view. Satan steals and wants people to think they will be happy if they steal. Satan does not want people to give, but to be greedy and hoard stuff.
Who said being perfect does or does not require needs or wants. Being spiritually perfect means always making the right spiritual choice. That is impossible for imperfect people.
When Adam and Eve were perfect, they still needed to eat, and wanted things. The perfect Angels want things, the Bible says they wanted to learn about God's plan for salvation. They are not immortal, so they must partake of angel food.
When rebellion broke out in the universe, I see God making the right choice, letting the results come to a full head, before judging the rebels. Satan said mankind is better off with his ruler ship than the Creator's.
I say Satan is wrong.
2006-07-23 08:15:30 · answer #3 · answered by tina 3 · 0⤊ 0⤋
You know, where did you get your definition of perfection?
Christ was perfect, yet he needed to eat. He had wants. Wants everyone saved.
Again, what dictionary do you use?
You're adding personal opinion to definition.
God's definition of perfect is 'complete'. That's why he called the Bible perfect. Because everything you need to know to gain salvation, is in it. Sure the Bible has problems because of it's age and the care it has received for thousands of years. But the thing is, we know what those problems are. We're on top. We know the answers to the problems. Just as there is inaccurate Bibles out there, we have accurate ones. In any Bible, you can find the truth to salvation, is the reason God allows the inaccurate ones to stay.
God is alive and perfect, and soon he will save those with faith, from this imperfect world.
2006-07-23 07:23:13 · answer #4 · answered by rangedog 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Love your logic, but faith is required. If you want to find God, you can find his description in the bible, in my case, the Christian bible. For the believer, the Christian bible is God's word as spoken by the prophet; it is a tool for the Christian, not a conversion manual. It requires no external sources; it interprets itself.
Now to your question. There are 48 uses of the word perfect, perfection in the bible NIV, and only one Matt 5:48 "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." This verse encourages Christians to be flawless like God is flawless. The other uses of perfect, perfection deals with way, law, beauty, etc. Nowhere does perfection "entails the lack of needs or wants...." I will return to this in a moment.
In the bible, there is no proof for the existence of God, it is assumed. We know from the bible that God is spirit and we worship him/her/it in spirit and in truth (We do not know God's gender or even if God has a gender, it is not discussed). We also know that God created the heavens and the earth. There is more, but these are the aspects of God you are using.
Perfection as used in the bible means lack of failings, flawless; looking in any dictionary, you will find your use of perfect, perfection incorrect. But more important, your technique (proof--scientific method) can not be applied. Why? Very simple, God reveals and man observes (revelation verses scientific argument.) We know what God has reveal, not what we can deduce. For example, science (using the scientific method, facts to theories) cannot prove or disprove the existence of God. Why? Science depends on facts and a fact is when any persons (note the plural, two or more) can observe it. Unfortunately, we cannot observe God. Even if scientists state that God exist because of the way the Universe function, this intelligent designed (or creationism) is a leap of faith. Using Aristotelian two-valued logic does not get to God even if God's attributes are contradictory. The road to God is through belief.
Bottom line: You have created a straw-hat argument, while entertaining and sometime insightful, that tries to deduce aspects of God (contradictory or not). God is more than our universe, he/she/it existed before and is responsible for everything as we know it.
The description of God comes from the bible. There is no proof of God's existence; the bible assumes it. The bible reveals knowledge; we know only what it discusses. It is the completed (not complete) statement, not a starting point for deduction.
2006-07-23 08:56:34 · answer #5 · answered by J. 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
It seems pretty silly to think that an all-powerful God would create mere mortals and then tempt them with bad apples. If God knows everything, didn't he know that giving people free will would result in them thinking for themselves and making their own decisions -- some of which might not be in line with his wishes? And from that one little incident (the apple), we are to believe that the entire world is crippled with sin and corruption, while God is oblivious to it all as he sits back and lets millions of people die in war.
This is the perfect love of God? yeah right.
2006-07-23 07:17:51 · answer #6 · answered by SB 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Jim Morrison~
How is it that "perfection entails the lack of need or wants"? Perfection should always desire to strive for more. In this scenerio, it's within "Himself" that we exist. Perhaps we are little more than a Rubix cube to Him? (something to play with?)
2006-07-23 07:11:27 · answer #7 · answered by jimi p 3 · 0⤊ 0⤋
well, do we created God or God created us....mayb the strong chirstians can answer this...i am nt strong i still doubt it..at times, if God is so prefect, why do God created us at first. are we God's toys? or is our every movement being watch? but y?
if God is prefect as everybody say, then y r sins sin?it should not be a problem cause God created us..so y does everybody say homosexuals will burn in hell cos its a sin, why does every sinners be blamed?
we dont create ourselves, but God. so if thats so, i strongly agree, its either God isn prefect or God isnt creating anything but just an image to us.
2006-07-23 07:21:16 · answer #8 · answered by lagrimas de oro 1 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Sounds to me like you're too hung up on dispelling a Christian God when there are a lot more other possibilities for a creator. You're just a bitter Christian, and not a real thinker.
2006-07-23 07:07:27 · answer #9 · answered by angrysandwichguy2006 3 · 0⤊ 0⤋
not really getting a question here but to respond to the statement try shutting yourself up from every one for a little while.... it gets lonely He wanted someone to talk to
He created us with needs so we would trust Him to full fill them and loved us enough to give us the choice to thing there was some sort of cosmic fart from a creator that doesn't exist.
2006-07-23 07:11:12 · answer #10 · answered by Star 3 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Because something is created doesnt make the creator imperfect and the creation couldnt possibly understand its creator
2006-07-23 07:08:37 · answer #11 · answered by msqtech 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋