Here's a challenge to all religions?

Question

I'll give you all 48 hours to formulate an argument for the existence of god.
1. You can't use religious text to support your argument.
2 You can't say " I feel therefore he is"
3. You cannot use ANY text from books about god.

Answer 1

a great challenge, thanks. timely for me, too, as i've been concentrating on atheism a bit lately.

read the premise from the book the god part of the brain by matthew alpen:

http://www.godpart.com/html/the_premise.html

his argument for the existence of god is that human's belief in god is an artifact of natural selection. it is a coping mechanism that comes with self consciousness, since self consciousness allows us to entertain the scary thought that we are mortal, and will die sooner or later. so we need a all knowing, all powerful, all good father figure (i call it 'omnigod') to comfort us.

the end of faith by sam harris is good reading too:

http://www.samharris.org/index.php/samharris/full-text/chapter-one/ (first 10 pages)

these ideas bear on the question of when religionists are going to admit they are the ones who actually have a lot to answer for. first and foremost, they must realise they are in the shaky position of asserting that Omnigod exists. such a thing does not, even if it is such a powerful, knowledgeable and good being, and even if that being is focussed on your welfare.

that this all knowing, all powerful and all good being is going to, purportedly, look after you, is not reason enough to throw logic to the winds and believe in the fictional: god.

this little video, a visual version of the story 'kissing hank's ***" is a great analogy of what i am saying:

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/KissingHanksAss.mov

most people, therefore, will have an issue with number 2. they feel comforted by the idea of such a god's existence, because this being will reduce the stress of self-consciousness, where we are confronted with things like the knowledge that we are mortal, that we will at some stage cease to exist.

that is why those who have gone through terrible strife often are so tenacious in their faith. they see it as their lifeblood. they have come close to death and fear it greatly. i have a friend who is like this, and it has got to the point where he openly admits there is no rational basis for faith, but equally openly says nothing will pluck him from the arms of god.

he is a forensic and analytic chemist, too, none less!

so i think a good way in is to try to reduce people's fear of death. to help them to deal better, psychologically, with self-consciousness. ultimately, what i hope people in the future, starting now, will believe is that:

# Atheism helps us to see reality as it actually is, without the mental filters of superstition preventing us from directly experiencing it.
# Atheism opens us to experience our selves, without the debasing idea that we are innately sinful.
# Atheism allows us to experience true interpersonal love, without any imaginary supernatural intervention.
# Atheism gives us the freedom to think for ourselves, to construct our own meanings. We each can choose what we think has value.
# Atheism shows us that we can gain meaning by seeking to make our world a better place, for ourselves and our posterity.
# Atheism teaches us to take responsibility for our behaviors in the here and now, not in an imaginary afterlife.
# Atheism lets us see that we have to make choices about our future. No big daddy god is going to protect us from bad decisions.
# Atheism teaches us to treasure this moment, this life, and this world — because we realize that it’s all we have.

Mark Thomas, Why Atheism? at:

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/WhyAtheism.htm

thanks, answering this question has helped me understand why it is important to have an effective way of dealing with what comes up by virtue of being self conscious. i know more than ever now that it is not by becoming religious, and at least starts with appreciating those statements about atheism.

i see atheism as the end of religion, not the start, or the basis for, some new faith. it gets rid of religious faith, and frees us up to engage in pure, raw life with, rather, the aid of self-consciousness.

'as it was meant to be'

Answer 2

I don't need 48 hours. It is extremely simple: Look at the earth and look at the people and animals in it. There is no possible way, even over the time it takes for evolution that we could have got lucky enough to basically spring into existence.
#1. Man isn't smart enough to make this world work; look at the Middle East right now. Without some divine direction, I don't think the world would still exisit. Man would have destroyed each other centuries ago.
#2. We know through artifacts that even the earliest people, cavemen, had a belief in something. we know this because they buried their dead with stuff... science/anthropology state that this shows a belief. The earliest writings (not necessarily religious texts) with have from Mesopotamia states that they believed in Gods. Each and every culutre has a belief in a higher power. You can't tell me that the majority of people are wrong.
#3. The first particles of something (whtaever it was) in the Big Bang theory HAD to come from somewhere.
#4. If evolution for creation sake existed, we would still be evolving or new things would be evolving that never once exsisted.
Think about this, evolution basically states that all of a sudden gases or something came together under heat and bang, you had the first particules of life... and over time they all came together and slowly things started to evolve. Take that same concept today and if evolution is true, then it should be able to happen today as well (if the conditions were right)

SO, let's pretend the conditions are right and bang all the particles of our creation pop into being (for now our creation is going to be a watch) Evolution states this: Some how every single working part of the watch springs into being, the glass, the band, the hands and all the inside parts. Somehow they get thrown into a bag that is heated and shakes constantly for a billion years. At the end of those billion years you open the bag and you have a fully working watch. There is no chance for that to happen: first, what is the likely hood of evolution producing the correct pieces, how will those pieces just happen to fall into place and in the CORRECT place for the watch to work. It is not possible. Athiest always say they can't believe people overlook science and fall for the whole God thing. Science is good, but not that good. We see design everyday. Our computer was designed and built by a person, our desk, our tv, etc. You can't tell me you don't look at the world and see the same design. Just look around you... there is your answer.

Answer 3

Well:
1. Reality is entirely subjective
2. Perception = reality
3. Therefore, for people who believe in a higher power, that higher power is real.
4. For everyone else, it's a steaming load of ****.
5. This can apply for all sorts of things. Man I'm glad I don't believe the Earth is flat. I'd probably fall off the edge.

But here's my favourite logical proof:
1. God is all powerful
2. God is all knowing
3. God is supremely good
4. Therefore, there is no evil in the world.

Of course, that's a proof against the existance of God, at least the Christian one.

I prefer this one:
God is the laws of physics and mathematics.
The laws of physics and mathematics exist.
Therefore, God exists.

But that only works if your conception of God is pretty far removed from the conceptions held by most religions out there that I know of.

Answer 4

OK, I'll take this challenge IF YOU

1 -can prove he doesn't exist based upon something other than "I haven't seen him" or "felt" anything and bad things happen (I haven't seen you but obviously you exist)

2- don't use any other knowledge you read anywhere or anything any human being ever told you to prove he doesn't exist

Did you ever stop to think that human beings may not be the highest form of existence? Or that "God" may not be an entity floating around on a cloud in a town called Heaven - that God may be something beyond our feeble comprehension in our limited human minds? Or that the only way our minds can even begin to scratch the surface of who or what God is - is through some sort of religious concept?

Are you setting forth this 'challenge' because you want to decide whether to believe in God or to shatter other peoples belief systems? Did you ever think that each person has a RIGHT to believe what they choose to and that just because YOU think something does not make it any more TRUE than if I think something differently?

Answer 5

This is the best way I know how to answer your question.

First. Do you love your mother, your father, your children or someone else?

If so, prove it. If you can't, perhaps this is why it's so hard to prove God is real... but that's not the end.

Have you ever seen the wind? But do you believe it exists? You do because you know the effects of the wind (i.e. wind storms, leaves rustling, etc.) Sometimes, you can know something is real by the effects it has on other things.

Along these lines, God also must exist as there is an intelligent science and balance to all things in the known universe. There is an order and a pattern. God is not a personified being that is anything like human beings. The universe is far too huge and vast to be made by a man like being. Similarly, the universe is far too complicated and complete to not have an intelligent being behind it.

Finally, all you need to do is ask God to prove to you of God's existance. Speaking directly to this huge spiritual and intelligent being... reaching out to this being will provide you with proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Imagine that you have a son who you are not allowed to speak to unless he speaks to you first. You also can not volunteer any information to him. And imagine your son is wonder who his father is. All he needs to do is ask you and you will tell him who you are. Similarly, all you need to do is ask God who God is and God will tell you.

(note: i am not using he/she to discuss God's person as God is neither male nor female).

I hope that helps. peace

Answer 6

The computer screen you are looking at and the computer you are using are an open system, incapable of self continuation or self awareness. If it was suggested to you that billions of years ago, the earth's rotation and the forces of gravity began a process which aligned all of the atoms to form the plastic, to produce the silicon chips and moving parts, and in the course of time it all came together in one place to form your computer, you would laugh me right off of the planet!! In fact, all polymeric materials (plastics, synthetic rubbers) are called 'man-made' materials because they do not exist in nature, in spite of the fact that their chemical structure is considerably simpler than many organic materials, such as amino acids and DNA.

You are in your own existence, a closed system, capable of internal self repair, capable of self awareness and self continuation. Your body and mind are infinitely more complex than the computer you are sitting at, which you not only know exists because an engineer and some machinists created it, but which you believe would not exist without them.

It is inherent knowledge that the natural order of the universe is from order to disorder, or a state of decay, (the Laws of Thermodynamics) and that is why you understand that a computer could not exist without a creator, and it is also why you understand that it is highly unlikely that a volcano will erupt and it's ashes and lava will fall down and form a new city. How is it you cannot accept that something of infinitely greater complexity (such as yourself) did not have a designer and creator?

No 'religious' text was used in this answer. Every observation of science is not objective, because all observers already have some opinions of various things. The true scientist looks at ALL of the discussions on both sides of every issue, and does not allow himself the luxury of any form of prejudice. This is why there are so very few true scientists, because the price of objectivity is peer rejection.

Answer 7

I'm not saying it is "God" but I believe there is a spiritual existence, some might say a soul, outside of our own bodies in this time/space dimension. This may all be connected to a "spiritual source" but personally I would not call it "God" because it is not an entity as much as it is an energy.

My argument is 1) near death experiences. NDE's are almost universal in their description across time and across cultures. 2) Past life experiences. There are numerous well documented accounts of past life experiences, some which can be traced to the exact previous person and place. 3) Psychic phenomenon. A good psychic can cross scientific boundaries and see past, present and future events with people with whom they have no personal experience or prior knowledge. That gives us insight that the soul transcends time and space.

Answer 8

First of all do you believe in a spirit world? Such as ghosts, demons, angels? Would you be scared if a ghost were in your house? Would a ghost in your house scare you more at night?Why are we afraid at night, and not during the day? The light makes us feel good doesn't it. It is a proven fact that people in the north have more depression than the south, because they don't see the light as often. The universe itself tells us about God. Cells, blood, our brains, our skin, the perfect percentages of oxygen so we can breath. If you changed the measure by the smallest percent we wouldn't be able to breath. What about gravity. Do you realize the amazing work of gravity? Trees feed off our carbon dioxide and the sun, we feed off the trees oxygen. Doesn't it seem like we are wonderfully made. Intelligent design. We need everything we have the sun, the moon, the trees, water. If you look scientifically, the chance of evolution happening is like covering the state of Texas with dimes piled 10 high, painting one red, then blindfolding someone and telling them to find the red dime. Evolution is a theory that darwin used, because he was angry that he failed as a pastor and tried to find another answer. None of it has been proven. Now back to demons. Even hollywood believes in evil. It sells movies. How could someone believe in a devil and not God. Why when people are scared, do they say Oh God help!. Because, somewhere deep down, they know their maker. They just don't want to believe, because then they know they have to act better. And that there is a God out there who is in charge of them. We, as humans like to think that we are in charge of us, no one can tell us what to do. We are self centered and only think of "me". What makes "me" happy. How does that benefit "me". The devil would be like that. I want to be like God. We say that. We want to create, we try and fail all the time. God lets us, because we have free will. Free will to do right or wrong. That's another question for you. What is right and wrong? For you it may be different than for me. Praise the Lord!

Answer 9

God is not without, God is within ourselves. When we are interacting with others, our choices are made by the influence of spirit and spirituality. You see the sun rise and set, you know the earth moves in the sky according to plan, you see a baby born, all are aspects of the influence of a higher power. There is no chaos, there is only order.

God is not a pronoun. God is a job description. Actions speak louder than words, written or thought.

Answer 10

The understanding of God's existence transcends beyond all human understanding, so in trying to logically justify His existence we are not going to succeed. All efforts to do so are hence token and inneffective. Listen to the voice in your head telling you that you're loved, or look at a flower or the night sky. Search without your mind for God but with your heart, and He will answer. In this world of rational thought, we are slowly dying. So listen to your Creator, and do not harden your hearts. If we pursue God with our minds, we won't find His peace, which is also beyond all human understanding. We can never find more proof for God's existence than our own lives, everything around us, and the vibrant beauty of life itself. An intellectual proof of His existence would never satisfy me. God is who God is.

I say all this, and I am a Chemist! I must now get back to my research....

Answer 11

life is proff enough look around u . the colours the textures how every thing just flows prefectly. the circle of life. water the purest thing and sustains all life. the air u breathe how u do it with out thinking. how ur body functions. i mean really , ur brain is the greatest invention of God ever. no science has yet seen how it works exactly. they can only see 30 %. what proff more do u need? and i dont believe in any religion but i do believe there is a GOd and live as fruitfully as i can