Atheists and THE SECOND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS?

Question

How do you atheists explain the theory of evolution in light of the laws of entropy (2nd law of thermodynamics) which shows increasing disorder (not order) in any system over time?

Answer 1

Good question.

Standard answer:
Entropy increases in a closed system.

However, in an open system, energy flow can cause local decreases in entropy. (so energy from the sun can contribute to locally decreased entropy on earth etc).

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However, energy flow by itself (without intelligent guidance) has never been shown to increase the information content in a system (whether closed or open) by any amount greater than the rational probability limit.

And evolution (random chance + natural selection for instance) has NEVER been experimentally proved (empirically demonstrated) to be able to create such information content (in a system (whether closed or open) by any amount greater than the rational probability limit.)

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It is relevant to note that ...

There is no evidence that proves Atheistic MacroEvolution (without Intelligent Design)...

I used to believe in Evolution. However, over a period of time I have grown skeptical of the claims of Macro*Evolution... this is largely due to the weakness of the evidence for Macro*Evolution, and the fact that the evidence, rationally interpreted does not support the overarching claims made by Macro*Evolutionists...

For scientific and intellectual critiques of evolution, see http://www.godsci.org/gsi/apol/evo/00.html .

Cordially,
John

Answer 2

The Second Law of Thermodynamics

The SLOT argument is a misinterpretation of a scientific principle. First, a definition:

"The second law of thermodynamics gives a precise definition of a property called entropy. Entropy can be thought of as a measure of how close a system is to equilibrium; it can also be thought of as a measure of the disorder in the system. The law states that the entropy—that is, the disorder—of an isolated system can never decrease. Thus, when an isolated system achieves a configuration of maximum entropy, it can no longer undergo change: It has reached equilibrium."

So order should not increase in a closed system.

Theists try to say that life on earth violates the second law of thermodynamics, and thus a god must exist to create the order and complexity of the world. However, the earth is not a closed system. When this is explained to theists, they will reply that the universe itself is a closed system and exhibits increasing order, and thus this is evidence for a god. I'll quote from Stenger again:

"The second law of thermodynamics requires that the entropy, or disorder, of the universe must increase or at least stay constant with time. This would seem to imply that the universe started out in a greater state of order than it has today, and so must have been designed.

However, this argument holds only for a universe of constant volume. The maximum entropy of any object is that of a black hole of the same volume. In an expanding universe, the maximum allowable entropy of the universe is continually increasing, allowing more and more room for order to form as time goes by. If we extrapolate the big bang back to the earliest definable time, the so-called "Planck time" (10^-43 second), we find that the universe started out in a condition of maximum entropy--total chaos. The universe had no order at the earliest definable instant. If there was a creator, it had nothing to create."

Here's another point to ponder: If the second law of thermodynamics is held to be inviolable by the theist, how did the creator god itself manage to avoid increasing entropy?

Answer 3

First, it's pretty clear you don't understand the second law of thermodynamics.

Second, the laws of thermodynamics are an abstraction of observable and testable events. If natural events were observed to violate this law, there are two explanations:
a) The law is incorrect, Sadi Carnot got it wrong, since the law is an abstraction of nature and the law should explain/describe nature and not the other way around.
b) The nature is incorrect, since all natural events should behave according to the law of thermodynamics. And everything that doesn't behave according to the laws, must be "wrong" or "incorrect".

The "logical" step would be to go for (a), revise and test the law and make any correction if needed, that's how science works.

Answer 4

The definition of the second law:

"The entropy of an isolated system not at equilibrium will tend to increase over time, approaching a maximum value"

Organism are not isolated systems. We share and receive energy from the environment, which is what allows DNA to become more complex.

The problem is you do not understand the second law. How else do you explain the existence of snowflakes and crystals?

Also every dog on this planet originated from a breed of wolves. That is proof of evolution.

Satisfied?

Edit:

Give the 10 points to JackB.

Answer 5

The major mistake here is to assume that evolution is anti-God and marks the thought system of the atheist. Katherine Jefferts Schori, presiding bishop-elect of the episcopal church of the USA, says 'I firmly believe evolution ought to be taught in the schools as the best witness of what modern science has taught us. To try to read the bible literalistically about such issues diversifies us from using the best of recent scholarship.' That said, as for the 2nd law of thermodynamics being violated by evolution, this is a tired argument which has been answered over and over and over again. Here's a starter: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html#thermo

Answer 6

Jack Bauer's argument is flawed.
If the universe is allowng more room for entropy, then why do we continue to see disorder in EVERY filed EXCEPT the so called "evolution" of living species. If you're seriously going to believe that science has only selected living organisms to become more ordered and non-living things to become disordered, you might as well believe in God, it makes more sense!

Answer 7

Well this shows how people can be so biased by their beliefs that they don't stop to use their brains. Besides most of the masses have no idea what you are talking about....laws of entropy aren't typically covered in high school chemistry. Besides, does anybody even take science classes anymore?? Science, what is that? Laws of what?? What's this chemistry you speak of??

(note the sarcasm)

Answer 8

Evolution, or science in general, shouldn't be the focus of a spiritual argument. Survival of the fittest, is a more appropriate topic. SOF is fundamental to Evolutionary thought, and has been used by despots as an excuse to commit genocide.

Answer 9

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all[b] the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Genesis 1:26-27 (New King James Version)

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Genesis 2:7 (New King James Version)

Answer 10

Simple answer. The Earth is not a closed system. Forgot about the the Sun did you? Boy are you stupid.