Total Depravity...what does it mean?

Question

Total depravity supposes that all men are inheritly (from birth) dead in sin. They cannot even choose to do good (This means that even the good things, [helping old lady cross the street], is still considered evil.) They cannot choose God. (Romans 3) Men are born loving sin, and hating God. Do you believe this?

Answer 1

Ezekiel 18:20
"The person who sins will die The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."

1 John 3:4
"...sin is a transgression of the law."

Isa 59:2
"But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God"

Review
1 We are not punished for the sins of our ancestors. Our own sins are what condemns us.
2. Sin separates us from God.
3. Sin is a transgression of the law.

so...

If babies are lost in sin, they must have transgressed the law of God, so which law did they (could they) transgress? If they have not transgressed the law (sinned), they have not yet been seperated from God. (Also how can you seperate things that were never together?)

Babies are innocent until they reach an age where they can decide to sin. Jesus referred to this innocence and told his followers to become like little children. (Matthew 18:3)

The doctrine of "Total Depravity" came from men, not from God's word. It is a misunderstanding of the scripture.

Answer 2

Rather than get into a long analysis and bore the bejesus out of you all, I recommend that you read American Psycho, by Bret Easton Ellis. What happens with the anti-hero, the protagonist, that is total depravity.

Anyone care to read it and respond? I'm looking at the details you provide after your q. and I can't say I disagree. But you asked for my answer on it. G-d continues to speak to us in many ways, even in works such as American Psycho. By that I mean, that's an example to avoid. G-d forbid you fall to that path.

Answer 3

Yes and no. Yes we are born dead in sin, but we can choose to do good or bad. When we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, and choose to follow his ways, we die to our old sinful selves and become alive in Christ. When we do this, we can still choose to do good or bad, but because we are born again, we want to do what is right and good, and feel guilty when we don't. As long as Satan is the ruler of this world, we will all be tempted to do wrong. As children of God, He will give us the tools we need to resist temptation. Whether we use them or not is up to us. We are born into sin, but are given the choice to choose God or to choose sin.

Answer 4

Total depravity is a calvanistic teaching which is false. I'm sure we can all agree that God is omniscient, He is all knowing. He knows all things past, present and future. How do we know that God knows the future? The proof is in the prophets. For example, Isaiah 7:14 prophesied that the Messiah would be born of a virgin…before it happened, Jeremiah 25:11-12 foretold of Israel's seventy-year captivity in Babylon…before it happened, and Micah 5:2 revealed that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem…before it happened.

On an individual basis, God also knows everything that will occur in the future…before it happens. Here are a few examples:

First, when Abraham's son Isaac married Rebekah, she eventually became pregnant with twins. When the twins began struggling within her, Genesis 25:22-23 tells us what happened. She said:

"…why am I thus? And she went to enquire of the LORD. And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; AND THE ELDER SHALL SERVE THE YOUNGER."

According to this passage, the LORD knew the fate of both twins before they were even born. Just like God said, it came to pass that the elder Esau served the younger Jacob.

Another example in the Bible proving that God knows all things beforehand is found in John 6:70-71, where Jesus said to Peter:

"...Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve."

How could Jesus possibly know that Judas would betray Him? Unless of course, His Father told Him!

Here’s another example where God knew what an individual would do before he did it: Remember when Jesus informed Peter that he would deny Him three times, before he denied Him three times? How did Jesus know that Peter would deny Him? Unless of course, His Father told Him!

The point is this: Even though we have free will, God is all-knowing and knows all free-will decisions we make before we make them. There is nothing that we can do to surprise God. For example, if we suddenly decided to sing or count from 1 to 20, God knew we would do it beforehand.

Before Esau was born, God knew he would despise his birthright. And before Jacob was born, God also knew he would covet Esau's birthright and offer to trade it with Esau for some venison. God also knew that Esau would choose to accept Jacob's offer. This is why Romans 9:13 says, "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." Does anyone really think that God arbitrarily hated Esau and loved Jacob for no apparent reason?

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Answer 5

First point of Calvinism. No, I do not believe it. I do believe in inherent sin, and that man is depraved. I believe you can choose God. If not, then evangalism is stupid.

Answer 6

That all humans are incapable of being good enough to make it to heaven on their own merits.

People **can** do what they think is good (even apart from God). However, this "good" is tainted by faulty viewpoints, faulty definitions of what is good, and by wrong motives.

Cordially,
John

Answer 7

Certainly!
Man is not as depraived as he could be because God still has the reins (even while we were still sinners Christ died for us).
Love it!!!!!