I challenge all the pro-illegals to come up with valid fact based reasons to support Illegal Aliens?

Question

The anti-illegals have continuously used facts and figures to prove their points and I have yet to see a valid fact filled reponse from the pro-illegals, here is your chance lets see what you can come up with. For all of you who choose to prove my point for me, thank you!!

Answer 1

Rebuttles On The Way Mick

OK stillson8
Lets Go A Round Or Two On Agriculture

Of 20 Million + ILLEGAL Aliens

Only 2 Percent Are Employed In The Agriculture Industry

Depending On Your Source Of Reference
39 - 42 Percent Of Those 20 Million
Are On The Welfare Rolls

ILLEGAL ALIENS displace American workers
by taking low-skilled jobs,
(Such As AGRICULTURAL WORKERS For Instance)
keep wages low by creating an overabundance of workers
and STIFLE INNOVATION And Technology
by reducing the need for mechanized labor.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2001/back801.html

The large-scale availability of such labor
actually impedes economic progress.
This is especially noticeable
in the production of fresh fruit and vegetables,
since the ILLEGAL ALIEN portion of the agricultural workforce
is higher than in any other major occupation.

Likewise, in the early 1960s, during hearings in California
on the proposed termination of the Bracero program,
tomato farmers claimed that
"the use of braceros is absolutely essential
to the survival of the tomato industry."
Congress discontinued the program anyway,
and the results were not at all as the farmers had claimed;

University of California economist Philip Martin has shown
that with fewer workers available,
the harvest was increasingly mechanized,
resulting in a quadrupling of production over the next 30 years
of tomatoes for processing, and a fall in real prices.

The period from 1960 to 1975
— roughly from the end of the Bracero program
to the beginning of the mass illegal immigration
we are still experiencing today —
was a period of considerable mechanization,
with the average labor-hours per acre used in harvesting
horticultural crops dropping 20 percent.
But a continuing increase in the acreage
and number of crops harvested mechanically
did not materialize as expected,
in large part because the supply of workers
remained artificially large
due to the growing illegal immigration
we were politically unwilling to stop.

This result nicely summarizes the threat
that guestworker programs pose
to America's agricultural competitiveness:
By artificially inflating the supply of labor,
government interference in the agricultural labor market
keeps the price of labor low
and reduces incentives for harvest mechanization
and technological advancement in fruit and vegetable production.

Without ILLEGAL Aliens,
the price of agricultural products
and other goods and services will NOT soar.
The definitive study on this subject
is the University of Iowa's
"How Much Is That Tomato?"
The study concludes that
'since labor is such a small component
of the end-price of agricultural products
(which includes price to the growers, transportation costs,
processing /storage costs, grocers' profit, etc.),
using minimum wage workers instead of illegal aliens
would increase prices of agricultural products
by approximately 3 percent in the summer
and 4 percent in the winter ...

The estimate is that
a 15 percent rise in the real wage
(30 percent in the short term)
translates into a rise of about 6 percent
in the real cost of fresh fruits and vegetables
(12 percent in the short term),
as reflected in an upward shift
of the U.S. supply curve
for these agricultural products.

If there was no change in U.S. imports
of fruits and vegetables,
upward pressure on U.S. retail prices
of these products would occur.

During the seasons when imports
of fresh fruits and vegetables have been relatively insignificant,
U.S. producers have the most protection
from foreign competition. We define this period
to be roughly the summer and fall seasons.

During this period,
The prediction for the new immigration policy
is a 3 percent increase in the U.S. retail price
of fresh fruits and vegetables
(6 percent in the short term).

During the winter-spring season,
when U.S. fresh fruit and vegetable producers
face much greater competition due to imports from Mexico
(and other countries), the U.S. retail price will be less,
but U.S. producers will feel a greater squeeze on their profits.




If You Cant Comprehend That
I'll Splain It For You

Because IMPORTED Produce Is Competetive
The Higher Labor Costs
CANNOT Be Passed Off To The Consumer

The Growers And Suppliers
Would Net A Small Percentage LESS In Their Profit Margin

Hardly the making of
$10 heads of lettuce,
$25 hamburgers,
$1,000 per night Days Inn hotel rooms
like the pro-illegal alien lobby claims.

BTW stillson8, Greenspan Is An IDIOT




http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/000506.html

"The product of the illegal immigrant
is not included (in the report)
because if that is an essential product
it will get done one way or another," Martin said.
Employers "would have to pay better wages
or invest money on mechanization."

Martin's study looks specifically at the costs
of educating illegal immigrants' children,
providing medical care to illegal immigrants
and jailing those convicted of committing crimes.
The report estimates the total cost at $10.5 billion each year,
but that is offset by about $1.7 billion in taxes
that illegal immigrants pay.

(What A Bargain For Us Taxpayers HUH?)

Does That Sound Like They
"contribute more than their fair share."
As Alan Greenspan States??

That Greenspan.....What An Idiot


American teens losing the race for summer jobs to Illegal Aliens
Jobs losses for teens are more dramatic
than in the early 1980s' recession,
and this summer is expected to be the worst
since the end of World War II.

Teenagers are facing the worst summer job market in decades
despite signs more companies are starting to hire.

The annual teen employment rate tumbled
from 45% in 2000 to 37% last year —
lowest since the figure was first tracked in 1948.

Kids are doing worse this year than last.
The job growth hasn't filtered down.
If anything like this happened to the adult workforce,
you'd call it a depression. It's that severe.

The reasons:
Companies are more likely to hire
unemployed adults,
seniors
and new immigrants (Illegal Aliens)
for entry-level jobs
that have traditionally gone to summer teen job programs.

U.S.-born high school graduates are squeezed at both ends.
Jobs that would have gone to them in the past
are now being grabbed by college graduates.
The lowest-wage jobs are unappealing,
and employers will not raise wages
as long as ILLEGAL Immigrants will take them.

If this is what the open borders crowd means by
"ILLEGAL ALIENS doing jobs Americans don't want,"
they're right.
American workers want jobs
that can Earn them a DECENT LIVING in this country.
Minimum wage is a fortune south of the border,
but it doesn't go far here.

Did I Mention That Greenspan Is An Idiot??

There is simply no economic reason
to import FOREIGN Workers.
If the supply of FOREIGN Workers were to dry up
(say, through actually ENFORCING the immigration law,
for starters),
employers would respond to this new, tighter, labor market
by offering HIGHER Wages,
INCREASED Benefits,
and Improved Working Conditions,
so as to recruit and retain people
from the remaining pool of workers.
At the same time, the same employers would look for ways
to eliminate some of the jobs they now are having trouble filling.

The result would be a NEW Equilibrium,
with Blue-Collar Workers making somewhat Better Money,
but each one of those workers being more productive.
The US unemployment rate would drop close to zero,
and wages would begin to rise.
The American middle class would begin to return to viability,
as would the union movement in this nation.

Greenspan....What An Idiot

The inflow of foreign-born laborers
depresses wages of all workers by some $190 billion a year.
Those who lose most are
low-skilled workers in the United States,
who are disproportionately minorities, women and youth

Many employers prefer to hire ILLEGAL ALIENS
because the foreign-born are unlikely to demand
more money,
benefits
or better working conditions
if they are working illegally
or have to be employed to stay in the country....

Unscrupulous businesses also hire illegal immigrants
in order to dodge taxes, the minimum wage and costly labor laws.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2004-05-03-teen_x.htm

The Center for Labor Market Studies report is online at:
http://www.nupr.neu.edu/01-04/immigration_jan.pdf

Immigrants cost state and local governments
more than they contribute in taxes or other economic benefits.

The most dramatic effect was felt in California,
where the native-born resident paid an average $1,174 more
in order to cover the costs of ILLEGAL ALIENS.
In New Jersey, the average was $229 per person.

Katherine Reynolds Lewis, Newhouse News Service,
January 22, 2004 Full text at
http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/lewis012204.html

With these well-documented facts resultant form numerous expert studies -- why do some Politicos continue to screw the American worker?

Greenspan = Idiot

All of this is to illustrate the absurdity
of a "comprehensive" approach to ILLEGAL ALIENS ,
and the more radical of the ILLEGAL ALIEN advocates
who are proponents of an "open borders" policy.

We don't take a comprehensive, humane approach
with drug dealers because they are breaking our laws
and causing great damage to this country
by poisoning our children.
Similarly, ILLEGAL ALIENS violate our laws
and Poison our system of Economics
by TAKING JOBS from American Workers,
Keeping WAGES ARTIFICIALLY LOW,
and Sucking MILLIONS of Dollars of TAXPAYERS MONEY
out of our Welfare and Medical Systems.

Not To Mention That ALL 20 MILLION ILLEGAL ALIENS
Live And Work In This Country
And Then Send Their Money Back Home To Their Families
Whatever Nation Their Families Live In)
To The Tune Of Some 39 BILLION Dollars Annually
Therefore DRAINING The Economy Even Further.

They May As Well Be Loading Our Gold
From Fort Knox
Onto Trucks
And Delivering It To Mexico City

When The US Dollar Leaves The US...
Its GONE From The American Economy.

Greenspan, You IDIOT

More and more segments of American society are being impacted By Illegal Aliens.

At a time when we are already struggling
to provide affordable care to millions of uninsured residents,
President Bush's immigration proposal would bring in
hundreds of thousands more uninsured and officially sanction
a massive illegal population already here
and already draining health care funds
from struggling communities.

Hospitals near the U.S.-Mexican border reported losses
of almost $190 million in unreimbursed costs
for treating illegal aliens in 2000,
with an additional $113 million in ambulance fees
and follow-up services;
and that the increase in uncompensated care for immigrants
has forced some hospitals to reduce staff,
increase rates,
cut back services
and close maternity wards and trauma centers.

Because each unskilled Mexican migrant creates an estimated lifetime fiscal burden of $89,000 on U.S. welfare services,
the tide of immigration must be slowed.
In addition,
more must be done to assuage American security concerns. Currently, Mexico's nascent democracy lacks accountability,
its defense and law enforcement agencies remain suspect,
and its customs and immigration services
are still weak and plagued by corruption.



stillson8
After Washing The Bulls$hit Out Of One Paragraph You Posted

"While in Wisconsin, migrants spend about half of their pay checks for various living expenses,"

ILLEGAL ALIENS also make special purchases
which average $750 for a worker traveling alone,
and over $1,100 for a family,
and may include a STOLEN used car,
STOLEN stereo and STOLEN VCR,
various STOLEN home appliances
and STOLEN computers.

ON ANY GIVEN NIGHT OF THE WEEK In ANYHOME USA


And Then On The Other Hand
There Is A Base Of 300 Million TAXPYING CONSUMERS
That Are SUPPORTING THIS NATION
That Make LEGITIMATE Purchases Every Day
Far In Excess Of Any ILLEGAL ALIENS



Consumers are NOT benefiting from lower labor costs.
Again, it's CEOs and business owners
who benefit from taxpayer subsidies
for their illegal alien workers.


The Big Three automakers
say they moved so many jobs to Mexico
because their labor costs are 80 percent less than in America.
Anybody notice the price of new cars
spiraling downward under NAFTA?

So, before you believe the prevalent pack of lies
perpetuated by the illegal alien lobby,
(Which makes Billions)
off this government-sanctioned criminal activity,
ask yourself who's saying this garbage
and look at what they have to gain.

What are YOU doing
to save YOUR State and Country from this Evil Work?

Why Do we allow criminals
and a foreign government dictate our laws,
have we become so complacent that we do not care?
Just as long as it does not effect our routine
or whatever we happen to be doing?

It is time we take back our country.
This is a very real problem
and we had better stand in unison
against this threat to our national security.


Thanks For The Space SAVAGE

And..Uhhmmm ...Did I Mention Greenspan Is An Idiot???




Anybody Else Wanna Take A Swing At Me???

Answer 2

They can't except in some college students thesis that got on the internet. They are illegal and if corporations suffer for their loss, too bad, they should have thought about that when they hired illegal people ahead of American citizens. Now, those producers will have to sell some of their assets they acquired by paying cheap labor and won't be able to live like king.

The USA would PROFIT by deportation.

If illegal aliens were given amnesty and began to pay taxes and use services like households headed by legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual net fiscal deficit would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total net cost of $29 billion.


Costs increase dramatically because unskilled immigrants with legal status -- what most illegal aliens would become -- can access government programs, but still tend to make very modest tax payments.


Although legalization would increase average tax payments by 77 percent, average costs would rise by 118 percent.



http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

Answer 3

This situation will no longer be amnesty. it is how critically you punish someone for skipping the workplace artwork. There are in reality 2 ends of the spectrum. One says that no longer registering is like making use of without automobile insurance. The penalty, assuming you've done no longer some thing else unlawful, must be paying a superb, paying your again taxes, and then filling out the right workplace artwork to develop right into a documented alien. the different end of the spectrum says that no longer registering must be a criminal, like stealing a automobile, and grounds for everlasting and on the spot deportation. no longer only that, all of us who helped the undocumented alien also must be responsible of a criminal. for my section, I favor the first mind-set. it is less complicated, solves the documentation complications, enable's people keep their jobs, and delivers sales a lifeless ringer for the different taxpayer. And it isn't any longer plausible to deport 12 million people. we do no longer have the criteria, manpower, or the skill to maintain them out in the adventure that they prefer to attempt back. yet taking off from a rational position now, permitting those who've already been the following countless years to stay assuming they have done no longer some thing else incorrect (see determination one), is conceivable. meaning deporting only the present ones and those who've a criminal record (except failing to sign in). a lot extra practicable.

Answer 4

I can tell you those farm reports are Bull!

Only 10% of farms use migrant workers. The big companies-most farmers hate them.

The other 90% will pull through and we could care less if those companies go down

What to know how many farms are paid not to grow anything?

Who is that idiot?-stillson-what a crock
White feather and JD-you got that right.
College students will do a lot of the work.

Answer 5

I can't answer this question fairly, since I am anti-criminal. However I do have something to say.....dang I love Yanswers.......one pro tried hard to present something, which after researching turned out to be bogus, but I gotta give him credit for trying to present some facts......PANCHA on the other hand, finally answered your question (after her little feelings got hurt), with a totally NON-ANSWER. I guess everyone else just bailed on these guys, LOL. I wonder....has anyone ever seen PANCHA post any links to anything, I sure haven't.

Answer 6

Here is some actual data regarding the impact of "undocumented workers" on the agricultural industry:

Farmers in Wisconsin were asked what would happen if migrant workers were not available.
1. would be more likely to close their business (49% );
2. to go into other lines of work (28%);
3. sell their land or equipment (28% ); and
4. they would retire (12% )

"Local economies depend on migrant workers in numerous ways. As a reliable and hardworking workforce, employers count on them to help plant, harvest and pack perishable produce, work double shifts in canneries, and accept wages that are above minimum but below a "living wage."

While in Wisconsin, migrants spend about half of their pay checks for various living expenses, such as food and clothes. This money is usually spent in local stores, thus re-entering the local economy. Migrants also make special purchases while in Wisconsin, which average $750 for a worker traveling alone, and over $1,100 for a family, and may include a used car, stereo and VCR, various home appliances and computers.

In sum, the migrant workforce continues to play a significant role in Wisconsin agriculture, its food industries, and its economy as a whole. Moreover, due to migrants’ spending in the state and the tax revenues that migrants make possible, there are significant positive economic impacts of migrant workers and their families in the State of Wisconsin."
http://www.ssc.wisc.edu/cde/cdewp/2002-06.pdf

"a Farm Bureau study predicts one-third of the nation's fruit-and-vegetable producers would no longer be able to compete with foreign growers, U.S. agriculture would lose $9 billion a year and U.S. consumers eventually would be left with only foreign-grown produce in their supermarkets.

Of the nation's 3 million agricultural workers, about 2 million are members of farm families and 1 million are hired, including an estimated 500,000 who aren't authorized to work in this country, according to the Farm Bureau."
http://www.bdtonline.com/business/feeds/apcontent/apstories/apstorysection/D8GBKBG02.xml.txt/resources_apstoryview

"One of the biggest misconceptions about undocumented workers, she says, is that they take jobs away from American workers and use up vital services. In fact, a number of studies by the U.S. Department of Labor show that migrant workers take difficult, low-paying jobs such as farm work that few Americans want. In many cases, these jobs don’t even pay minimum wage. The money these workers earn is taxed, but, because they don’t have valid papers, they are often unable to use government services. In fact, undocumented workers in the U.S. pay more than twice in taxes what they consume in services. Even Alan Greenspan, Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, has noted that undocumented workers in the United States “contribute more than their fair share.”"
http://blog.willamette.edu/stories/archives/2003/04/life_in_the_sha.php

Answer 7

I'm done posting links and facts.I've done that all in the past.Facts about the illegals paying taxes,ever heard of the Earning Suspnese File?Well if you really want to know you can look it up yourself.Who the hell are you that I have justify my beliefs to you?

Answer 8

I can only hear crickets from the pro illegal side. Silence is sometimes golden. I agree with Whitefeather.

Answer 9

I think chupa_minor summed up the intelligence of all illegals...

also, you proved him right, obviously "mexico is good" is the only valid argument that they can come up with.

Answer 10

there is a very important word all these pro-illegal alien people are seeming to ignore..ILLEGAL, that word means these people are doing something ILLEGAL, therefore agains the law, if we are going to just look aside as these people break the law, then we should also look aside at all the people who commit robbery, burglery, embezzlement..

Answer 11

You know I have pointed this out before...they never post links to back up their claims, they just come on here typing out lies and agendas as if they were facts and when you ask them to post links, you get nothing. Not too many of them even answered you......hmmm I wonder why.....lol.