Would you please comment on these arguments I found on a website?

Question

1. Evil:
Because evil exists, God cannot be all-powerful. all-knowing and loving and good at the same time.
2. Pain:
Because God allows pain, disease and natural disasters to exist, he cannot be all-powerful and also loving and good in the human sense of these words.
3. Injustice:
Destinies are not allocated on the basis of merit or equality. They are allocated either arbitrarily, or on the principle of "to him who has, shall be given, and from him who has not shall be taken even that which he has." It follows that God cannot be all-powerful and all-knowing and also just in the human sense of the word.
4. Multiplicity:
Since the Gods of various religions differ widely in their characteristics, only one of these religions, or none, can be right about God.
5. Simplicity:
Since God is invisible, and the universe is no different than if he did not exist, it is simpler to assume he does not exist (see Occam's Razor).
None of these criticisms apply to the God of pantheism, which is identical with the universe and nature.

Answer 1

I COULD waste my time.

Answer 2

1. This is an old argument and has been refuted often. In truth, it is the atheists that deny evil, since they do not accept a universal code of right and wrong. Evil is limited and will end at some point. If you hate evil, hate sin, it is it's root cause.

2. We live in a fallen, broken world. It is not perfect. Natural disasters will occur, people contract diseases, because of the fallen, sinful world we live in. Sin brought about death, disease and suffering. Pain, often regarded as bad, is useful. Would you really want to go through life without feeling the sensation of pain? How often has pain prevented you from further harming yourself? We don't see the big plan, but God does, and we cannot pretend to understand His ways fully.

3. This is part of a passage from Matt. 13:3-24. It is part of the explanation of the parable of the sower.
Mat_13:12
"Whosoever hath ... - This is a proverbial method of speaking.
It means that a man who improves what light, grace, and opportunities he has, shall have them increased. From him that improves them not, it is proper that they should be taken away. The Jews had many opportunities of learning the truth, and some light still lingered among them; but they were gross and sensual, and improved them, and it was a just judgment that they should be deprived of them. Superior knowledge was given to the disciples of Christ: they improved it, however slowly, and the promise was that it should be greatly increased."

4. Yes, correct, and it is the Judeo-Christian God of the Bible.

5. Your premise is flawed. How do you know the universe would or wouldn't be different? You have never lived in a universe outside of God. Considering the complexity, cohesiveness and design of the universe, it is actually simpler to believe in the God of creation then to believe this all happened by accident.

Answer 3

1 2 and 3 all are answered by Free Will that God has granted.

4 There is only one right answer.

5. The universe (according to most major religions) would not exist if there were no god as he was the one who created it. So therefore it would not be the same. Thats a faulty statement. Occam's Razor argument should state, Since we cannot see God he does not exist... And it should stop there, anything else dilutes the simplicity of the answer.

Answer 4

Seriously?!

1. Evil exists because of the free will of man.

2. Pain is a state of mind that people feel the need to identify and label.

3. Injustice is felt because man feels that he has no worth to justify what he cannot understand.

4. Multiplicity is the interpretive way of understanding; French, German, English, Spanish. Aren't the religious beliefs based on those who follow?

5. Simplicity is not found in the statement of, "... and the universe is no different than if he did not exist.." and therefore the ideological assumption of Occam's Razor cannot apply.

Answer 5

1, 2, and 3: You are assuming that a world without evil, pain, and injustice is an ideal one. It is also a world without goodness, gratitude, and heroism. Good and evil...how can one exist without the other?

4: I've come to view all religions as metaphors that try to describe the Divine but all fall short, as the human mind cannot comprehend the full Truth.

5: Just look inside yourself. Either you will see the Divine staring back at you, or you will not. There is no other argument that can convince you, because the soul cannot be placated by the mind.

Answer 6

1. Evil is a choice of a conscious spirit. God cannot take away our free will, ever.
2. Think of not allowing a child to eat cookies before dinner. You know it will spoil their appetite and is not good for them, but they don't understand. "My ways are not your ways, neither are my thoughts your thoughts, saith the Lord." If there was no hurt, people could never learn and grow, and then what would be the point of life? Some pain is caused by the evils of other people, like the Holocaust. see answer #1.
3. Life is not fair, no where does it say it is. BUT, the eternal Judgement will be fair, and according to his actions and desires of his heart, to each will be rewarded his own.
4. There are misperceptions about God in all religions but the right one.
5. God isn't invisible. He is simply unseen. Big diff. And you can't assume it is no different with or without him, so this point is moot.

Answer 7

1) God does not control everything. He goes with the "free will" theory. Thus you make the choice to go with evil or not; that choice will lead you to your appropriate after life, which in most religions is the "real" life that you are waiting to get to.
2) See above.
3) See above.
4) We all know this. That is why intelligent people study the different religions and make a choice based on their beliefs.
5) Who says God is invisible? Just because you haven't seen Him doesnt' mean you can't see Him. And how do you know that the universe wouldn't be different if he didn't exist? (or did).

This God of Pantheism that you're referring to still has #4 attached to it... it is all based on the belief that God is identical to the universe and nature, which again, you cannot prove.

Answer 8

Evil and most pain and suffering comes at the hands of other people- If God wanted to make it so, He could make anyone who was about to hurt someone else (or about to commit sin or evil) drop dead on the spot. That would eliminate the pain and suffering of the innocent- Here's the dichotomy- if God instantly killed anyone who opposed Him, would anyone oppose him? But would we really love Him- how could you love someone if you didn't have the ability to choose to love or not. (Love me or die- is that really love). God does in fact Love all of His children, but what good is it to love if no one loves you in return- and how can you love in return if you have no choice.


Natural disasters- we all have to go sometime- if that is a car accident or cancer or a hurricane- what's the difference? Natural disasters show us how fragile we really are- they also give us the chance to prove our humanity and cultivate feelings of wanting to serve our fellow man. If we had no fear of accidents or natural disasters, would we have any reason to call out to God for help.

Injustice- Destinies are totally in God's hands- God will judge people based on what they did with what they were given. True people are given different starting points in life, but we are not judged by an ultimate finish line- rather an individual one- filled with Gods perfect balance between justice and mercy not man's limited vision of justice.

Multiplicity: Agree- I don't believe all roads lead to Rome. Perhaps there is one true religion and the other religions are man's attempts to try to understand God. Some of these are closer then others to truth- (A spectrum of True religion on one side and gross misrepresentation on the other). Satan is real too, and he is always trying to get religion to vary from the truth and many have. However, since God is loving and just he will again judge people based on what they did with what they were given- if a person is born in a certain religion, and strives to live a good life and follow that religions teachings, and never has the chance to learn about a truer religion, then God will judge appropratly.

Simplicity: who says God is invisible and who says the universe is no different than if he did not exist? What if he does exist and created this universe to see if we would seek Him out without Him immediatly punishing the wicked- He is refraining from 'medlling' because he wants to see what we will do without Him always breathing down our back.

Occam's razor only works if you have all the facts- it doesn't work with partial information- eg: we used to think electrons orbited the protons and nutrons of an atom, it was the simplest exlanation- but it failed when we learned about quantum physics- we couldn't explain some results of experiments- so we created a much more complex model of the atom and that one seems to fit better (but it is much harder to understand- You can't know where the electron is and any attempt to measure it will cause it to move or change. So now science is asking me to just have faith in where an electron is- we can never really know where it is. How does Occam's Razor apply here??)

Answer 9

Since you asked for my opinion (well, sorta).....
I think the guy making the arguments you found hit it on the head in his second statement. God is not human. Humans are His creation, not the other way around. How could a created being ever hope to explain his Creator? Might as well ask a frog to explain Friday...

Give Occam back his razor...he needs a shave.

Answer 10

#1, #2, & #3 all find their answer in the first 3 chapters of the Book of Genesis. God originally created the world to be good, without pain or death. However, both Satan and man chose to rebel against God. God allowed Satan and man to rebel. He did not force them to obey Him. The Bible says that "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23). In other words, there is consequence to our sin. God is holy and loving, but He is also perfectly just. His righteousness demands punishment for sin. Because man rebelled against God, the universe that we live in was altered. Pain, death, and decay entered in. God allows man the dignity to choose. Yet with our choices come consequences. The current state of the world as we know it--one filled with evil, pain, and injustice--is a direct consequence of man's (original and continuing) decision to rebel against God. God allows this rebellion to go on for now, but not forever. One day God will judge all people who are alive and who have ever lived. He will purify the creation and restore it to its original perfect form. Everyone who has chosen to trust in Jesus Christ as their Savior will live in this perfect creation for all eternity, where there will be no evil or pain or injustice. These three tragic problems are temporary. They will not last forever.

#4 is a true statement. Only one religion can be correct about God. That one religion is the religion of the Bible: Christianity.

#5 is based on false logic and is an oversimplification. It is not true that the universe is no different than if God did not exist. Someone had to have created all of the laws and principles that sustain our universe, not to mention the matter that it contains. It is illogical to assume that the universe came into existence without a Creator. It is equally illogical to assume that the universe could be sustained apart from God's providential care.

A careful study of the Bible reveals that it alone offers a valid explanation for the universe that we live in. It alone explains the depths of the human hearts, and the grandeur of the cosmos. And the Bible points to Jesus as man's only hope of salvation.

Answer 11

Mind if I prove you wrong?
First, God wants US to go against all the evils, pains, injustice, etc. and solve them without his help. This will prove that we love him.
Also, all the different religions originate from one point, one or more than one greater-being. So all believe in a God in one form or the other, so one must be right!
I also will use Ocum's Razor against you. What sounds simpiler, the universe created itself, or the universe was created by a higher being.
I think you have been watching a little too much Contact!