Is GM's worst enemy the American public's cynicism?

Question

GM has many quality vehicles now, and when they had a class leader in the Saturn L series (it was a 'little' noisy) nobody bit. Does GM have a bad image or does America. I'm rooting for ya, and I'm a Canuck (Canadian.)

Caspers, my sister is an accountant for a farm utility reseller and oversees inventory control the companie's vehicle fleet. She says when a truck blows an engine it's a Ford. Most of my vehicles have been Fords, so I'm not prejudiced (starting with a 65 high perf Mustang.)

Ok Seahawk, I drive a Pontiac Vibe, same car as the Toyota Matrix. Aside from me outgrowing an otherwise commodeist interior (I'm 6'5") I love it. By why is it's resale price significantly below the Matrixs.' It's just not based on fact. And about the L series, it grew long in the tooth because of poor sales, but Intellichoice.com rated it best pick in class.

Deadly, I got a great and cheap extended warranty on my L series, and before we extended it (and after the original had run out) we had a repair done gratis. I did love driving my L (a four with 5 spd., very peppy, economical) but, yes, way too many repairs.

By the way above I was really referring to the S series.

Maria, many people complain about unions, but usually when everyone's back is against the wall (as was with Chrysler) cooperation is the name of the game. Besides the big 3 don't just suffer from big unions, they also sufferr from big management. Japanese CEOs don't make nearly as much coin as American ones do.

Daddio, yes the mpg issue IS THE BIGGEST ISSUE. The quality gap has narrowed considerably between American and Japanese. Now we are ahead of Europe, who seem to be stuck in the mud. But Volkswagen can sell cars, even if they break. What gives?

Rigo, GM's stock has soared 40% in the last 3 months, and you haven't seen anything yet. When the new merger bears fruition GM will bring a lot to the table in terms of infrastructure. But sorry about your Monte Carlo. Today they are one of GM's best made cars.

EY, perception, as you paraphrase it, is the other half of the equation. My problem is that even when GM does bring out something good we are the first to jump all over it. I'm all in favour of improvement and thank the Japanese for lighting a fire under our butts, but when it comes we all seem to think anything less than perfection isn't good enough. And do you know who invented statistical quality control (an American), and just on time parts delivery (Henry Ford.)

I want you folks to feel guilty, that doesnt mean look the other way, because we have had Edsels as well as cars that break. But it we're not part of the solution here (each other,) we're part of our problem.

Paka, an American law, made by an American who cared. This doesn't mean we're losers like we seem to think we are.

It's time for reflection.

Answer 1

This is an interesting thread. Let me interject some things to make you go "hmmmm..."

Toyota has increased its market share pretty drastically in recent years, but not via hybrids or fuel efficient vehicles, but in large pickup / SUV sales. GM's new SUVs are class leaders in fit & finish, fuel economy, ride / handling, interior noise, etc., etc.

By the way, hybrid technology has been embraced by Ford, but hybrids other than the Prius don't seem to sell well. What's up with that? Is this another perception issue? GM says that the future of auto power is flex fuel. It says that over a lifetime, an Escalade running E85 will burn less gas than a Prius.

Longer warranty? I happen to know that GM is looking at increasing its base warranty. But I wonder why Hyundai's resale values fall off so quickly when they offer a 10 year warranty?

Speaking of Hyundai, it seems there may be some malfeasance from their upper management - stay tuned on that one!

And to some silly posts: 'Liberals' drive foreign cars? please...

I thik the fact that your 1979 Monte Carlo is still going at all is a testament. Do you realize it's 27 years old? How many 27 year old Suburus do you see out there? (BTW, my GTO turns 40 next year)

GM vehicles have more recalls than any other make, but also makes more vehicles than any other make by far. It's the same idea that all the mistakes on an office are caused by the same person - the one who is working. This argument also applies to aftermarket parts sales. There are still more domestic cars on the road here than foreign cars. Therefore it is natural to sell more parts for those cars.

Ford is not the #1 selling pickup truck once you combine the Chevy and GMC nameplates. The F series is the #1 selling nameplate.

Domestic cars are not more expensive, and don't necessarily get worse fuel economy than their Japanese rivals. Their 'boring' designs are relative - you can look at designs like the new Solstice and Camaro concept as examples.

Lastly, in places where the playing field is level, GM is trouncing the Japanese competition. Take a look at sales numbers in China as evidence.

Conclusion? Perception is a large part in any equation, and GM, Ford, & Chrylser all have a credibility gap, deserved or not.

Answer 2

HOLY CRAP!!! The L class didn't lead anything! It was cheaply made, and didn't have the room or features that were available on other, albeit more expensive, cars in its class. GM's biggest enemy seems to be the corporate culture which never had to endure the near elimination that Chrysler did in the late 70s and early 80s. It seesm that Gm worries too much about perception, and not enough about production. I can not tell you the last time I went into a GM showroom, or drove a modern GM product and felt it was groundbreaking and worthy of being a class leader. (OK, sorry, I have not driven the Cadillac SRX and am very impressed with all I know about it.) The sad part is, most people have a good image of GM, or worse WANT to (myself included) but they can't bring themselves to buy a product that is behind the times and competition.

Perfect example: The Chevrolet HHR. This well packaged and designed vehicle is a good effort from GM, but it took 5 years from when it was in concept form to be greenlighted for production. In that time, we already to the second generation of PT Cruisers, a car with similar style and function. The PT is a roaring success that now needs to be followed, while the HHR looks like sloppy seconds. I think GM should merge with Renault and Nissan, if only to get some new blood in there, so all three can benefit!

Answer 3

GM has had a history of making bad cars with shoddy materials. Even if they have improved in recent years, it's still hard to shake the image, especially since the company itself is teetering on bankruptcy.

One major complaint is that GM is extending itself too much. They make eight brands (Chevy, GMC, Hummer, Pontiac, Saturn, Saab, Buick and Cadillac) a lot of times use the same engines and interchange them. This costs them a lot of money, and would do so much better for themselves if they consolidated. And their relatively lack of interest in Hybrid or alternative technologies is going to hurt them as well. It's a prime example of American backwardness.

I have a 1979 Chevy monte carlo that has pretty much fallen apart. A few years ago browsing casually on a chevy forum, most other monte carlo users have had the same problem with upholstery randomly falling, especially from the ceiling, engine problems, electrical problems, windows jamming, it couldnt be coincidence.

Sjean should know that Even though Toyota is a Japanese company, They now employ more American workers than Ford or GM does, since they outsource their parts and labor to Mexico.

Answer 4

Honestly, as someone who does not buy American cars I can state why I don't, and that it would likely take a minor miracle to get me to buy one. The short answer is that American car companies (and YES I lump them ALL into this category) DON'T GET IT! They have been churning out new versions of the same thing for generations. Most of them never clued in that later generations aren't looking for the same things in cars that our parents did - REALLY. Despite the fact that Americans are fatter than they ever have been before, our primary concern is not head room! We're not playing basketball in the car, we're getting in to drive. I don't want to see bench seating, or the shifter behind the steering wheel like it's a pickup from the 1950's.

The styling is still attrocious as well. Ever notice how easy it is to tell what cars are American? One way to tell is because of the GIANT reflectors they always put on the tail-end of the cars. AWFUL. Ever heard the term "less is more"? American cars simply look cheesy, inside and out. Cheap imitations where foreign auto makers have crafted well made vehicles. Hopefully GM has purchsed some of the Cymfony solutions (cymfony.com) and are tuning into this blog to get some input as to what they don't get. Bigger is not always better. Refinement and not imitation is needed. Craftsmanship is key. Make cars - not boats. The next generation WANTS to feel how a car handles and repsonds to each action the driver takes. Comfort doesn't mean seperation. Even the name means something. Lucerne? C'mon! Who saw that name and voted it in? Sounds like a miserable waitress in a 50's diner. Hey Lucerne, where's my eggs?! That's why Buick will be next on the chopping block. When was the last time you saw a new Buick roll by you? Just as they had to kill off the "Oldsmobile" name, they'll have to do the same with Buicks soon. Lesson learned? The term "old" doesn't sell much in the car business. Those 'old' ads with all the fat old men at your Buick dealerships stating "this isn't your father's Oldsmobile"...yeah, it's a different color entirely. Short of that - looks pretty much the same to me. So, to answer your question - is GM's worst enemy the American public's cynicism? I would have to answer yes, second only to their inability to listen...

Answer 5

Truthfully The reason GM is getting such a bad wrap is because no matter what sales say FORD will always be the no. 1 American auto..The F-series trucks are the no1 selling automobiles for the last 12 years....There really is nothing wrong w/ the quality or preformance of the GM autos...But FORDS are built to last and built for work...9 times out of 10 if a company is looking for fleet trucks(non Big-Rig) They will go w/ FORD..because ford has an extensive commercial warranty...GM does not

Answer 6

All American cars have bad images. 7 of the top 15 cars that have been recalled are american cars. GM i bileev makes up about 3 or 4 of those cars. Needless to say though GM is an unluck company. With all their SUV's and Hummers getting popular gas prices increased their sales decreased. American cars offer crappy warranties because they know their stuff is not quality and will probably need repair some time soon.

Answer 7

i've sold aftermarket parts at 3 million dollar a year stores for 18 years.
they ALL break! the big three break the most, but are cheaper to fix (usually).
imports break way less often. even regular maintenance things like brakes and belts and hoses.
i buy a car on a dollar per mile focus. the big three have a long way to go to even compare to the imports.

but did you notice the mpg doesn't really seem to be going anywhere, even with all the current debate, (and the decades of research behind us now?) on imports or domestics?

Answer 8

I've owned both domestic and foreign cars. Some of the foreign cars were better, others were not. I honestly think it's a matter of taste. America does make good cars now, but that wasn't always the case. Now people are used to the foreign ones.

Answer 9

All the political liberals I know think it's much more cool to buy foreign cars than American made cars like their parents did.

I have a Chevy pickup that I've had since 1987 and it's still going great!!

Answer 10

It seems the only commercial I see on TV is for Chevy/GMC trucks or the Buick Lucerne. They should do a better job marketing all the makes, like Saturn, which is a really good car.