What's up with Trinity and One God?... Part 2?

Question

Answers to the “Part 1” of my question showed that you could only believe in one of the two points raised by my question: Either God is one or God is a Trinity. You simply cannot believe in both. Most detailed answers presented metaphors to explain how three equals one. Ok, by itself, Trinity seems just fine. John, Jane and their son Joe are three distinct persons but they are one family. That is fine, but they are not one “Person”. They are three distinct persons. True, together they form a family but a family is not a person. So The Father, The Son and The Ghost are three distinct Gods, and yes, together they form a “family” of Gods, but not a single God. So by looking at Trinity in a vacuum, it makes good sense. There are three distinct Gods, and together they form the Godhead. But they are still three persons, acting in agreement but not physically one. To make them one physically, people start using metaphors and long-winded jargon.

Continiued below...

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This is done because they realize that the Bible, the Torah and the Quran don’t speak of God as a multi-part entity but stresses that God is unique, indivisible, non-sharing, and very, very singular in nature. They realize that Jesus spoke of the Father as if the Father was a separate entity: John 14:28 “the Father is greater than I”, Mark 12:29 “Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord”, John 7:16 "My teaching is not mine but His who sent me”, and my favorite, John 5:30, “I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge; and my judgment is just, because I seek to do not my own will but the will of Him who sent me.” The reason Jesus consistently speaks of God as someone other than himself is because God is someone other than Jesus himself.

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Can anyone show me a statement by Jesus himself saying that he is God and that we should worship him? The statement should be in Jesus’ own words, not a dream, or a vision by someone else and certainly not an implied meaning. It should be clear like this:

Torah:
"I am the LORD, and there is none else, beside Me there is no God" (Isaiah 45:5)

Quran:
"Such is God, your Lord; there is no god but He, the Creator of all things; so, worship Him (and Him alone), and He has charge of all things. (Quran 6:102)

Remember, you cannot defend two diametrically opposing positions. Trinity draws its power from pagan Romans and yes by bringing the two together, in a twisted way, we united the Christians and the Romans back then, but now you can’t explain this flaw in God’s oneness. Please stick with the original teachings you may do better.

Please no more metaphors, No more Eggs, no more Mind, Body and Spirit. Jesus is one in mission and message with God, not physically one. the verses prove that on their own.

Answer 1

Trinity doctrine and all other godhead doctrines are evidence of the contradictory nature of the bible and Christianity.

Answer 2

Christians are baptised in the name of the father the son and the holy spirit because god is on god with three distinct persons. The trinity is also merely a mystery which mortal minds cannot comprehend.

Jesus revelas his father. He says "No one knows the Son but the father, and no one knows the father except the son and anyone to who the son choses to reveal him." Mt. 11: 27 For this reason the disciples call christ the word, "in the beggining was the word and the word was with god and the word was god." Jn 1:1. This shows that there were and are two distinct persons in God, the word was with god, and was god at the same time.

The son and the father revealed by the spirit. Before passover, Jesus announced the sending of "another advocate (paraclete)" the holy spirit. At works since creation having previously "spoken through the prophets" the spirit will now bve with them and in all the disciples to teach and guide them into all the truths.

Wrap up. the trinity is one! We do not confess three GODs, but three distinct persons in one god, The persons do not share the divinity but are each one completely divine whole and entire. "the fathger is that which the son is, the son is that which the father is, the father and the son are that which the holy spirit is, i.e. by nature one God.

He is not the father who is the son, nor is the son he who is the father, nor is holy spirit he who is the father or son. They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin. It is the father who generates, the son who is begotten and the holy spirit who proceeds. They are all related yet all the same.

It is simply a mystery... Now JESUS AS DIVINE??? WHAT?

YES!*^%#@&!^@%&^!%!

Answer 3

Add this metaphor.

God is like an Egg. A whole egg is three parts, seperate but included in an Egg is the Shell (God), the White (Holy Spirit) and the olk (Jesus). Each part is not an egg, but in its entirty is.

Jesus does speak of being one with the father, Being one in the same. Check out this link.....http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/jesusgd2.htm

I and my Father are one. John 10:30

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...All things were made by him...He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us John 1:1, 3, 10, 14

Jesus saith...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? John 14:9

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

Answer 4

The first time "God" is referred to in the Bible is in Genesis 1:1. The Hebrew word used for God in that verse is "Elohim." The "im" ending on that word makes it a masculine plural noun. So, you would think that the verbs would agree in number, but they don't. The verbs used with "Elohim" are always singular. So the following statement from your post:

"This is done because they realize that the Bible, the Torah and the Quran don’t speak of God as a multi-part entity but stresses that God is unique, indivisible, non-sharing, and very, very singular in nature."

is simply wrong. The first time God is referred to in Genesis, the noun is plural, not singular, but the verb is singular. Here's what the first part of Genesis reads like in English:

"Breshit bara Elohim..." In the beginning God created.

If the verb "bara" to which Elohim refers was plural, the verse would look like this:

"Breshit baru Elohim..." Which says the same thing, but makes the verb plural as well. So, what we have is a plural noun perfoming a singular action. How can you explain that other than with the trinity?

Answer 5

That's because the doctrine of the Trinity was invented by a committee, (the nicene creed, I think) and is not actually true doctrine.

The Godhead IS three distinct individuals. The Doctrine and Covenants teaches that God and Christ each have a perfected, resurrected body of flesh and bone, and the Spirit does not have a body yet.

They are three people, although they are united or "one" in their purpose, which is to "bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man."

I think the fact that you have so much trouble with the Trinity is because your spirit is trying to help you remember the truth of your existence.

Answer 6

How can one God be three persons?






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The doctrine of the Trinity -- that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are each equally and eternally the one true God -- is admittedly difficult to comprehend, and yet is the very foundation of Christian truth. Although skeptics may ridicule it as a mathematical impossibility, it is nevertheless a basic doctrine of Scripture as well as profoundly realistic in both universal experience and in the scientific understanding of the cosmos.

Both Old and New Testaments teach the Unity and the Trinity of the Godhead. The idea that there is only one God, who created all things, is repeatedly emphasized in such Scriptures as Isaiah 45:18:

"For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; ...I am the Lord; and there is none else."

A New Testament example is James 2:19:

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well; the devils also believe, and tremble."

The three persons of the Godhead are, at the same time, noted in such Scriptures as Isaiah 48:16:

"I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I; and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

The speaker in this verse is obviously God, and yet He says He has been sent both by The Lord God (that is, the Father) and by His Spirit (that is, the Holy Spirit).

The New Testament doctrine of the Trinity is evident in such a verse as John 15:26, where the Lord Jesus said:

"But when the Comforter is come whom I will send unto you from the Father, He shall testify of me."

Then there is the baptismal formula:

"baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19).

One name (God) -- yet three names!

JESUS -- That Jesus, as the only-begotten Son of God, actually claimed to be God, equal with the Father, is clear from numerous Scriptures. For example, He said:

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty" (Revelation 1:8).

HOLY SPIRIT -- Some cults falsely teach that the Holy Spirit is an impersonal divine influence of some kind, but the Bible teaches that He is a real person, just as are the Father and the Son. Jesus said:

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak; and he will show you things to come" (John 16:13).

TRI-UNITY -- The teaching of the Bible concerning the Trinity might be summarized thus. God is a Tri-unity, with each Person of the Godhead equally and fully and eternally God. Each is necessary, and each is distinct, and yet all are one. The three Persons appear in a logical, causal order. The Father is the unseen, omnipresent Source of all being, revealed in and by the Son, experienced in and by the Holy Spirit. The Son proceeds from the Father, and the Spirit from the Son. With reference to God's creation, the Father is the Thought behind it, the Son is the Word calling it forth, and the Spirit is the Deed making it a reality.


We "see" God and His great salvation in the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, then "experience" their reality by faith, through the indwelling presence of His Holy Spirit.

Though these relationships seem paradoxical, and to some completely impossible, they are profoundly realistic, and their truth is ingrained deep in man's nature. Thus, men have always sensed first the truth that God must be "out there," everywhere present and the First Cause of all things, but they have corrupted this intuitive knowledge of the Father into pantheism and ultimately into naturalism.

Similarly, men have always felt the need to "see" God in terms of their own experience and understanding, but this knowledge that God must reveal Himself has been distorted into polytheism and idolatry. Men have thus continually erected "models" of God, sometimes in the form of graven images, sometimes even in the form of philosophical systems purporting to represent ultimate reality.

Finally, men have always known that they should be able to have communion with their Creator and to experience His presence "within." But this deep intuition of the Holy Spirit has been corrupted into various forms of false mysticism and fanaticism, and even into spiritism and demonism. Thus, the truth of God's tri-unity is ingrained in man's very nature, but he has often distorted it and substituted a false god in its place.

Answer 7

A couple things

1) An easy example...water, 3 states, same substance (gas, liquid solid). Jesus even called himself the living water....hmmm

2) Satan is the great deceiver. He has emulated the Father from the beginning. So many early sects, cults and groups emulated the Godhead principles, and emulated a coming savior. Satan has been very sucessful in diluting the Christian faith and doctrine. He planned in advance, then after Christ, caused the Holy Roman Empire/Church to adopt many of the Pagan ways and Holidays etc.

Dilute, divide and conquer

Answer 8

Hear o Israel the lord our God is one. Definitely that is what the Bible teaches. The problem arises when we see that His son Jesus is also worshiped as God himself. Since the Bible teaches to worship only one God; are we then to conclude that the Son is a ´´manifestation´´ of the one God. Nobody has been able to give an answer that will satisfy everybody else. We will understand when we get there. God bless you and give you peace!!!

Answer 9

You have to go beyond human understanding. Certainly we can not comprehend this as humans because we can only know or imagine what we can percieve with our five senses. Certainly omnipotent God could easily be one being and yet three at the same time. Perhaps they all share the same consiousness and know all things together but are capable of independent thought. Thus they are three and at the same time one. Sort of like a person with distinct multiple personalities but on a grander scale.

Answer 10

In reading your questions and responses, I guess all I can say is that the duality of "one Being in three" is often referred to as a blessed miracle. If the nature of God was something easily understood by people, I doubt there would be so much strife over religious issues since they would all be easily grasped and agreed upon. Instead, God is so far beyond human comprehension that we can not fully describe his nature in terms that do Him justice. The duality of existence is such that God is in three parts and indivisible. Belief in it is a matter of faith or lack thereof. In other words, believe it or not.

Answer 11

Of course GOD is one in nature, He isn't a trinity, He is one, and Jesus (Peace Be With Him) was not divine, simply a human prophet of God, Noble Quran's veiw on Jesus:
Many verses, and I include this:
"Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allâh is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was". (Aali Imran 3:59)

Trinity is false:
"O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allâh aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allâh and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rûh) created by Him; so believe in Allâh and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (Trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allâh is (the only) One Ilâh (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allâh is All­Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs." (An-Nisa 4:171)
AND

"Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allâh is the third of the three (in a Trinity)." But there is no ilâh (god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilâh (God -Allâh). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall the disbelievers among them. " (Al-Ma'idah 5:73)