Using a mobile phone to boot a pc?

Question

Has anyone used Knoppix/Linux live cd?

Do you think it's possible to store a light weight version of Knoppix and some hdd formating software etc on a spv to boot the pc using the usb connection? or is the usb driver a problem?

Ah! hold on and I'll try and be alittle clearer.

Q. can one install a computer OS stored on mobile phone onto a pc? ie. can an OS like knoppix be stored as a bootable file on your phone and then be used via the usb port instead of a live cd!

Msg From: "draciron" mentions the following site...
http://sourceforge.net/projects/linux-usb/

He adds... "it is possible to create an Ethernet connection and to a network install from a cell phone/PDA."

Thanks to all! Andy

ehm? anyone else like to browse the basics.
http://www.goosee.com/linux/ch03/index.html
thanks "cho"

Answer 1

Whether or not you can boot from a USB connection would depend on you motherboard and the BIOS. If you enter the BIOS setup there should be and option somewhere that lets you set what order of devices the PC boots from. Generally newer computers try to boot from the CD drive first, followed by the HDD. If you are able to change one of those options to USB, then you would be able to boot the PC from a USB device if the software is properly placed there, and the device doesn't need special drivers to transmit data to the PC.

Answer 2

It could be that the Knoppix/Linux live cd needs to be of executable form for the spv (specifically it's processor). Paring a disrtibution down to fit the hard disk /memory requirements for an spv and then compiling it for the spv's processor( either a samsung chip or a TI omap one) is possible.

You would do that on a desktop pc with the necessary development environment, I suspect. And then copy it onto your spv.

The interesting part would be for your pc to have it's bootup process point to knoppix or a linux livecd on your spv.

There are memory flash sticks ( not sure about naming make/model here) that can store an XP OS desktop saved setting and plugged into a pc on bootup will effectively restore it - it is a 1 gig stick.

If the PC bios can recognise (via bluetooth/usb) and pass on the boot sequence onto the OS on the SPV then things are cooking.
I have a feeling that the usb link between the spv and the PC is typically setup to transfer data eg thru SyncML, and not run executable code ( from a cold-started PC). How hackable this is, would depend on the standards specification involved, I guess. But seeing as usb memory flash stick can be booted up off from, it should, in theory be possible. Rewriting the (linux-side) usb driver could be one way.

Whichever way you see it, this would be cutting edge stuff.

On the other hand, if the point was to just boot linux using something handy (eg like a mobile). A surer way would be to copy a suitable distribution, like Damn Small Linux, onto the memory flash stick. Plug it into a usb port and powerup the pc - when it would work just like a live cd ( See the sources for the HOWTO link).

Answer 3

It seems many have giving similar answers as I have. And, in great detail. The only thing they seem to miss (except one person near the end), the BIOS only enables the USB ports to be recognized by the OS so that USB devices will work once the OS is installed. If the BIOS automatically used the USB device, a mouse would work without an OS, even in BIOS. But, a mouse (and most other USB device) doesn't work without the USB drivers, and the drivers that control the hardware/software for that device. The only exception is a USB device like a CD-ROM (any flavor) or Thumb drive because the USB device drivers are already installed on the CD/Thumb drive to allow them to work on a PC without an OS.

The reason the BIOS does NOT have the drivers is because the BIOS has limited room. It is still working on the IBM 8088 concept and principles, even in today's PC's. Once the BIOS is changed (in the near future), then the USB drivers may be included in the BIOS instruction set to allow USB mouse to operate before a OS is loaded. Which means any USB driven device will word on a PC without an OS. Which means legacy devices and software will not work in the new BIOS environment without a software emulator.

But, as the last person stated (the one that really knows his Linux stuff), if you load a driver to your phone for the PC to use, then it may be possible. IF your phone has enough memory for the OS AND the USB device driver to force the PC to boot from the phone USB connection.

Answer 4

It should be possible, but it strongly depends on your BIOS. Some BIOS's support USB boot devices, some don't. The biggest problem however is that it is still strongly advised against. The main reason some vendors introduced the boot from USB was for people who only had external USB CD drives and wanted to keep the computer CD drive free in the long run (for example, many businesses use this as a deterrent from people installing a load of programs onto their computers).

If the main point of this is to get the computer to boot up when the computer is telephoned, many BIOS vendors support a slightly different way that allows the computer to wake from a standby mode (or sometimes from a complete off position). This is usually described in the BIOS as 'Wake on LAN' or something to that affect. This is the preffered root, since it allows the usual BIOS settings to used, and hence whatever OS your using, be it linux, solaris, windows or any other.

It is possible to boot from any USB device. All that it needs to return to the BIOS is a basic set of drivers and a memory location which signifies the location to continue to boot from. Im sure that there will be a tutorial out there that will explain it all, however, like I say it is STRONGLY reccomended against, primarily for security reasons.

Answer 5

It seems like you have some pretty good answers right now. As long as your computer supports booting from a USB device, it should, that is provided your phone is seen and recognized by the BIOS as a simple flash drive. If it is, then it should boot.

Also, you will have to have enough room on your phone to Install Knoppix to, I've never tried to mount an ISO file from a flash drive but I am pretty confident, it is not that simple.

Answer 6

it's not something I have tried, I only have linux installed on my PCs and only ever use live distros to check them out if I get a free copy with my linux mags.

I've looked around and I would say it's possible, most bios nowadays will allow booting from a USB drive, so I would guess that to get it to work you would need to treat the mobile phone as an external hard drive or more likely a flash or thumb drive, check this out:
http://www.pendrivelinux.com/
There are mobile phones that run using linux, so I would guess all the bits are there to enable you to do it.

I'm not sure how to go about it I would guess you would need to extract an ISO file to the mobile which I would think you would have to install from the PC. Knoppix need a 1 gig flash drive, I don't know what sort of storage is on a mobile nowadays but some of the thinner linux disros may fit.

hope this helps a bit, I would be interested to know how you get on, if you get it to work there are one or two linux forums that I'm sure would appreciate a howto on it.

I've also looked around at usb to ethernet, again something I haven't done myself but I do use a serial to usb cable for my modem and with Suse 10 it hotplugs perfectly, I have to plug the usb end in after a reboot for suse to recognise it, so I should think that usb to ethernet should work out of the box. Here are a couple of sites which may help, I don't know for sure but I expect the 2.6 kernel will have sorted out any hotplug problems:
http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/linux-networking/40399-hotplug-problems-usb-ethernet-adapter.html
http://www.linux-usb.org/usbnet/

Adaptors are available from these sites, I expect there are many more: http://www.directusbstore.co.uk/cnb/shop/directusbstore?listPos=&op=catalogue-products-null&prodCategoryID=30

http://www.eagepc.com/product_details.php?dpid=22&catid=298&id=3461

Answer 7

CONGR8S AS U'VE GOT ATLEAST AN IDEA , A GUD ONE
IF U CAN THINK.. YOU CAN FIND A WAY
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you thought that i can answer this... well this is my try..
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Knoppix !! I think every one must use this OS as it really is a nice exp. to ....
And Yes It is Possible To Store OS on USB but not sure about Knoppix.

*) Booting Linux off of a USB drive:--
There are (at least) three things you need for this to be able to happen.

1. BIOS Support to boot from USB
2. Kernel support for USB Storage (including SCSI)
3. A patch to delay boot process

The first of these is something outside your control, either your BIOS supports it or not. However, you could put your kernel and initrd on a floppy and then use a USB root file system to get around this.
In your boot kernel or initial RAM disk you need to include support for all the needed items to support using a USB disk. These are documented in the Linux USB User Guide.
You also need to patch this kernel to delay when it tries to open the root file system, as the USB subsystem takes longer than is allowed to initialise and make the device available to the kernel.

LINK IS HERE:--- must GO 4 MORE----------
http://www.linux-usb.org/USB-guide/book1.html

but before PROCEDIN' U MUST C THIS TALKS:-
http://www.mail-archive.com/[e-mail]/msg00686.html

and one more link:--
http://www.simonf.com/usb/

HAY !! BEST OF LUCK !!!!
AND LET ME KNOW IF YOU CAN DO IT OR NOT !

Answer 8

Thats a really interesting question. Linux after a promising but stuttering start is showing up on phones and PDAs finally.

If your machine's bios supports booking off USB then you can theoretically do it. The biggest hurdle is actually storage space. Most Cell phones don't have very much storage space. The kernels are lean and trim. PDAs however could and often do have the storage capacity. So a PDA/Mobile combo which is the future of mobile phones anyway might just have enough storage capacity that you do not have to know exactly what they hardware will be in advance and can install a pretty rich flavor of Knoppix.

One of the frustrations of Linux is also one of it's strengths. Linux is very backward compatable. The philosophy is one of the things that endear me to Linux. If I like an app or a way of doing things why force me to change? There is no reason too and backwards compatability is usually not very difficult. Why this is a pain is for example I NEVER use the TeXt tools at least not knowingly. Yet every app in the world for backward compatability compiles in support for them. So for me the TeXt and LaTeXt tools are pure unremovable bloat. I'm not going to comb through the source of thousands of apps to remove all reference to them. I just install depdancies to make all the software happy :)

If you were to remove such bloat from say a Knoppix distro you could pare an already very efficient distro down to something that could run on the average PDA AND more importantly have enough hardware support and drivers to load up on most modern computers without a problem. Knoppix is amazing in that I havn't found a computer it won't run on yet. I'm sure if I worked at it I could find one it did not run on or run well on. Still I've used it on dozens of machines and it always worked like a charm. Even on machines where other distro's choked.

I think the idea of the author of the question is that if for example he maintains a network and came upon a machine he needed to install too he has his distro right there with him. No CDs to lug around. If he is at a relitive, at a friend's place. Again everywhere he goes he not only had a distro but can install that distro on any machine he so chooses. In other words he wants to do what most of us will be doing 5-10 yrs from now if not sooner. Been many a time I've forgoten a CD or thought, I'm just doing a standard install I only need the first 3 CDs then it prompts me for CD4 and things like that.

Problems with the concept.
Storage space on the Mobile device.
Solution - People are already demanding more space and CE will deffinitely push storage requirements. So for once M$ does the world an accidental favor.

USB booting - Most machines will be capable of USB booting in the near future. So not a problem for long.

Full distro capabilities.
Any machine connected to the net this is easy. Set up YUM repositories as part of the install. Also as part of the install you want a hardening script anyway. Easy enough to add a second script for first boot which goes out and yums a predefined list of apps. Thus no need to lug around non-essential stuff. What is essential depends on what you plan to do with it of course.

Unashamed unabashed gloating contained in the next sentence
Bah lets see windoze try that. Customization with windoze, it's an oxymoron LOL.
Now back to discussion.

Anyway there are of course lots of kinks to work out. The idea is sound and doable. I suggest starting a source forge project for a Knoppix variation built for doing exactly that. The main work being in making the custimized installation easier and making it easy for people to weed out depdancies which they never use. Sure it makes it harder for somebody else sitting at your machine, but how often does that happen to most of us on desktops? I ssh in and expect only bare min utils on desktops I support. As long as they have a common text editor and don't touch core usr/bin commands I can get things done. Would be nice ot have my specific environment but what works for me is not what everybody else likes. That's why Linux = Freedom. A chance to do things YOUR way.

Anyway good quesiton Andy. The short answer is yes, but... See above hurdles for widespread use. Hope you do start a Sourceforge project for this. There are quite a few people who will eventually use this idea.

Answer 9

I don't know much about Linux, but from my general knowledge of computers I know that typically for in your case there very well could be an emulator that can be run on your computer and can do just about anything you want to do on your computer as if your actually using your cell phone.

As far as installing an operating system onto your phone ya I imagine it's possible if you know what you're doing. But if you are able to do this please share with everyone on Yahoo! Answers as I've never heard anyone doing this before.

Answer 10

Hi Andy, read the email today but was late :(.

Seems that all the info you need is already provided to you by other users. I never tried LiveUSB before. It is possible, check out the link to a Linux version and instruction.