I have Christian friends who….?

Question

Are always trying to convert me, they love me and I love them but we just don’t see eye to eye on the religious debate. Ironically we are word for word on politics though… SO they took me to a local bar * gasp * to see a pastor named Rob Bell, he was very charismatic and actually very entertaining. What I thought was interesting and actually liked was he was critical of religion’s emphasis on doctrinal distinctions and really emphasized spirituality as the path one must seek. So let’s say we take the Church out of all our discussions about God would that change our debate?

It is true! The bar was not a bar for that night obviously! It was at a place that is normally a bar but did not serve drinks that evening. I say bar it is probably more of a venue for local bands. And this pastor normally preaches in Malls… Look him up!

Look him up!
It is Rob Bell- Everything is Spiritual... tour

Let me just say their conversion techniques failed once again and now it is my turn. Bwahahahahah!

Answer 1

There is a difference between religion and spirituality.

The first one is a "business" (albeit non-profit): so-called saving souls.

The second one is about the path one must seek. . .and a universal truth espoused by many great traditions (Hindu, Buddhist, etc.)

Be aware of the broader psychology going on around you: your Christian "friends" may not be so grounded in their beliefs. . .as they feel the need to be surrounded by others who believe like them. . .and to convert those whom they know and like. . .primarily to make themselves feel more committed. .. in the guise of altruism and saving souls!

Yes. . .do keep "church" out of these deeply personal and private matters. . .and make decisions for yourself. . .first. . .and to the extent you are drawn to the Christian tradition (broadly defined). . .select a good Bible translation and start reading and studying it when you can. . .Peterson's "The Message" is a good and recent one because it is devoid of doctrinal bias and was based upon research and scholarship. . .then decide for yourself whether you want to attend worship services. . .the frequency. . .and denomination (do shop around). . .while still knowing that personal, sacred space for prayer and meditation is what brings, and keeps, an inner peace alive. . .not so much singing "Onward Christian Soldiers" in a packed sanctuary or inviting your pagan list of friends to a bar for. . .surprise. . .a meeting with a pastor.

Shalom to you on your perhaps new found. . .and continued. . .journey!

Answer 2

Wow! If that were the sort of Christians I knew, I probably would have converted a long time ago! I'd say that I agree with the opinion of that pastor. Spirituality (true spirituality) is what we really want when we look to religion. However, it's usually Dogma and Doctrine that get shoved down our throats. The biggest problem that I have with Christianity is that if Jesus was such this loving guy (and I truly believe that he was and I totally respect his teachings) then why is it that he demands that we worship him as God or suffer in eternal damnation? That's not the Jesus that I know. I don't consider myself a Christian, and I don't really believe in what most Christians consider God. I tend to be open to all religions, but Christianity almost always turns me off. I think there are a lot of them that give it a bad name.

Answer 3

It might. A lot of people have many more problems with the Church than with God. And I'm sure your friends would agree that God is more important than any Church. If it's easier to discuss God without bringing the Church into it, then by all means do so. Of course, you should discuss the Church at some point since it's still important; it's just not the be-all-and-end-all. In my opinion, spirituality is indispensable; it's the main way we know God. The Church, however, acts as a guide. After all, they make God and the study of religion their full-time job, so I ought to at least consider their arguments and conclusions.

Answer 4

There are plenty of scripture passages that encourage more than one person to come together to worship God. THere are also plenty that support individual worship. In fact, a healthy walk with God has both. Remember, Christ said where two or more are gathered together, I am with you. You also have friends in church to pray with you, help you, encourage you. Church is also a place to give...to give your time and talents...a chance to serve God in ways you cannot do on your own.

I have been to many Chistian denomination churches. Some are just "way out there" to me...some are too structured...some are too big...and so on. Nevertheless, many people go to each kind. The important thing is this...we are all different, and can worship God in different denominations, so long as the doctrine of the denomination is sound and rooted in the Bible with Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. The Holy Spirit that indwells every believer may have you go here or there...go where the Holy Spirit leads you.

Answer 5

Though true that there are certain doctrines of the churches that keep people from coming to Christ we should not forsake the assembling of the people. Going to church is a fundamental part of our faith and worship of God. To take this out would hinder our ability to worship and help others in our walk with Jesus. We need to be encouraged everyday to keep our faith or we are susceptible to falling back into the world. Not all churches are bad but you are right that some don't really add up to what Jesus had in mind for the church, I just hope you find room in your heart for Jesus and let him guide you to the right church. May God bless you.

Answer 6

When you say church you are speaking of religions; the Bible speaks of the church not as a certain religion but as a group of people who all believe in Jesus Christ and what he taught and try to live by that, not the doctrine taught by religions today. So, if we take all the different religions out of the equation and just stick to what Jesus taught, then you can go by that and make your own decisions. All you have to do is ask yourself, "Do I believe that Jesus Christ came to earth to die on the cross for everyone so that our sins would be forgiven and we could have a place beside God in heaven? If you say yes, that you do believe that, then you just have to follow what the Bible says regarding morals and the right way to live. Forget what all the religions are teaching because even Jesus said that all that preaching isn't going to get you in heaven, it's what you believe and how you live that counts.

Answer 7

Well the thing is that you can take man made denominations out of the discussion but you can't take Jesus out of the discussion.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

Either Jesus was telling the truth and He did actually die to pay for our sins and lives again as He prepares a place for us or the Christian faith is in vain.

1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. 15 We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.

Answer 8

I am with you. I do not belong to any of the "churches". I belong solely to God. Church has become very political lately, and mostly just to get along with our government. But the Bible tells us, that we will all be ridiculed, even by our own government.
And for those who thought it was awful for the pastor to meet her in bar: We should be going to places full of evil to bear witness to God. What is the point, in preaching to a bunch of believers? The more lost souls, the better.

Answer 9

Five days after it began, the new conflict in the Middle East has intensified as Hezbollah and Israel struck deeper into each other's territory and claimed more innocent lives.
At least 30 civilians were killed during the latest wave of violence, including a group fleeing Lebanon.
More deaths came as Israeli conducted its first stikes on the centre of Beirut, turning Hezbollah's headquarters into rubble
For scared and frustrated locals, Lebanon's highways have been turned into a tangle of destruction and few petrol stations still operate. Few routes of escape exist.
A convoy of families trying to cross Lebanon's southern border came under attack from an Israeli helicopter near Marwaheen.

Eighteen people, nine of them children, were burnt alive.


this is what all religion brings in the end - suffering and death, and so much of your precious time alive WASTED

Find the strength in yourself to believe in the freedom of logic and the ablility to say "I don't know."

Answer 10

I think it would change your debate. When you are just looking at God, he is perfect. He always loves us and wants the best for us. Humans are imperfect. If you are looking at humans and people in the church for something, you are always going to be disappointed, because humans fail. Rob Bell is awesome.