Theists: Can you identify any way in which this universe differs from how it would be if there were no gods?

Question

As far as I can tell this universe is indistinguishable from how we would expect it to be if there were no gods. Can you persuade me otherwise?

Tim: Who says there was ever a 'nothing' for the universe to be created from? QM suggests that a state in which nothing exists at all is simply impossible, and hence a creator would be impossible too.

diamond_doll: "if there was no god there would be no universe", you say... but how do you know that a universe requires a god to create it? Where's your proof? Without that, your statement is without value.

kevin: The big bang does not prove that the universe came out of nowhere. It is probably the point at which the universe as we know it began to exist but what went before that, if anything, is pure speculation.

snowbunny: Where's your proof?

Worshipful: If existence is probabilistic rather than deterministic then a state of complete non-existence - complete nothingness - could not possibly exist.

freebird: your reasoning requires proof that all this could not exist unless a god exists. Where is your proof?

KingMattIV: Morality is a part of human nature, the product of evolution. Therefore we would be moral creatures with or without religious belief.

Answer 1

This is like asking how stomach ulcers would be different if they were caused by something other than being gored by invisible unicorns. People who subscribe to the invisible unicorn theory can't be reasoned with, while everyone else thinks it's a reallly bizarre question. It may amuse the latter but it probably won't even lend food for thought to the former. They'll just say "Well, of course, there wouldn't BE any stomach ulcers now would there? Everyone knows the only way to get a stomach ulcer is to get gored by an invisible unicorn."

So --- "Well heck, if there were no God (or 'gods' as you sinfully put it), there would BE no universe. After all, it had to come from somewhere! What's that? You say that doesn't really answer the question because it doesn't explain where God came from? Well heck, that's easy. God is the Infinite, Eternal Self-Begotten, with neither beginning nor end, existing from before all time. So why can't the universe (or the totality of 'universes') be infinite and eternal if God can? Well heck, that's easy too! The Bible says, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but by Me.'"

etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

When you're willing to believe anything, there is no corner too tight slip out of.

Answer 2

Nobody who has answered this so far seems to understand simple science.

The big bang theory has nothing to do with the creation of matter, but rather it explains how the matter in the universe seperated and began expanding.

This matter did not need to be created. Under the law of conservation of mass and energy as well as the basic logic principal that something cannot come from nothing, the most logical and scientific theory is that the matter which makes up the universe has always existed. It was most likely compressed into a ball of extremely high density and low volume when the big bang caused it to expand and form our current universe.

This leaves "God" completely unnecessary; if one continues to argue that the universe needed to be created, then they must also realize that the same logic applies to their god. If they claim that their god has always existed, then they must also realize that the same logic applies to the universe, for which there is scientific evidence.

For a more in-depth look at these ideas, here is a very fascinating site: http://www.thekeyboard.org.uk/Where%20universe%20from.htm

Edit: Oh, and I feel that I should point out that KingMattIV is expressing a very ignorant and uneducated viewpoint. The laws of America and Europe are not based on the 10 commandments, but rather on basic human nature, and the knowledge that certain acts, such as murder and stealing, infringe on the rights of others (after all, there are no laws stating that people must "keep the Sabbath day holy"). Another misconception that he seems to have is that religion creates morality, which is completely false. Religion is not needed for a moral code; only logic, reasoning, basic human nature and emotions are needed.

Answer 3

For all of those who are saying "well, duh, the universe wouldn't exist" and "you can't create something from nothing"...

What came before God? Was God just sitting around an the void and then one day decided to create the universe? No matter what theory you follow, you cannot say what came before "the beginning". Your arguments hold no weight.

And just because we don't understand what happened at the beginning of the universe doesn't mean we have to make up fairy tales about it. I am perfectly ok with not understanding everything about the universe. There are many things in the past that humans have not understood, but through science and research, have come to understand later. It shows a lack of faith in humanity and a weak mind if you HAVE to have an explanation for everything, especially an explanation so ridiculous as invisible beings dictating the universe.

Answer 4

If there was no God, how would the universe come into existence in the first place? Something cannot come from nothing. Every scientific theory requires that certain conditions exist prior to the Big Bang. Some are better at describing those conditions than others, but even then, those conditions had to have come from somewhere.

Answer 5

there would probably be no universe. The Big Bang proves that that time, matter, and space all came out of nowhere and have been rapidly expanding since the 'Big Bang'. There is no explanation for how time, space, and matter came out of no where unless there is a force that is outside of time, not in space, and that dosen't have matter. This spirit or God is the only current explanation for the creation of our finely tuned universe.
Check out the book 'I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Athiest'

Answer 6

Who says that there has to be a god to create a universe? Why can't the universe simply just exist?

Answer 7

It probably would not be as beautiful with all of its stars and galaxies...there would be darkness and chaos in this world...there would be no hope, faith, joy, love....there would be nothingness...nothing to live for....dead.... I would probably never even be here on this planet...I would have never been created because there was no God to create me...that would be a sad story...but aren't you glad he does exist and that he did create everything! aren't you glad God created the sun to give us light and heat and the moon for a nightlight and the star to light up our dark universe...He is wonderful he did it all for us that is how much he loves us...

Answer 8

We are the universe trying to figure itself out,but the GREAT EXPERIMENT had to be started at some point by some form of entity.Most people call that entity god,and that seems to work as well as any other,but you could use any religious deity for that purpose,and not change the result.

Answer 9

Look at the moral and ethic code in America, and western Europe. What is it based on? The Ten Commandments. Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not kill, etc. And of course, this comes from Christianity which believes in God. Without God, we would be without ethics, and without ethics, we would have nuked everyone by now. Religion and belief in a God or multiple gods holds people to account for their actions and look for the favor of God. Without this accountability, what is to hold people from reverting to anarchism?

Answer 10

Chance happens. Science at least proves that, daily existence proves that. Whose to say that isn't the case? If there were no "god", people would invent one, and of course, we'd be as confused as humans as we are today. If there is a god (and I don't mean to imply that I don't think there is) we humans certainly are confused about "god" today.