Trinity??John 8:58??

Question

I saw this used as evidence as proof of the trinity, I would like to examine it further. John 8:58 ". . . Before Abraham was, I am."

Christ's reference to Abraham is to affirm his (Christ's) pre-eminence, not pre-existence. The Jews had claimed that Abraham was their father (vs. 39) and so Christ establishes his pre-eminence in the divine purpose by stating that before Abraham was, "I am". He did not say "before Abraham was, I was" as it is frequently misread. But the Jews, like modern-day trinitarians, misunderstood Jesus. He was not claiming to be literally older in years than Abraham. This is indicated by his prior remark: "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad." (vs. 56). Abraham, to whom the gospel was preached (Gal. 3:8), "saw" the day of Christ through the eye of faith. Christ was "foreordained before the foundation of the world, but manifest in these last times". (1 Peter 1:20). He was foreordained in the divine purpose.

Answer 1

There is no trinity. You have God the Father, the Son of God, and the holy spirit, which is God's active force or power. Even the New Catholic Encyclopedia agrees with this.

Answer 2

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word(Jesus), and the Word(Jesus) was with God and the Word(Jesus( was God.
Genesis 1:1-2 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit(Holy Spirit) of God moved upon the face of the water. P.S. Don't swallow the camel while your straining at the nit

Answer 3

How can one God be three persons?






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The doctrine of the Trinity -- that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are each equally and eternally the one true God -- is admittedly difficult to comprehend, and yet is the very foundation of Christian truth. Although skeptics may ridicule it as a mathematical impossibility, it is nevertheless a basic doctrine of Scripture as well as profoundly realistic in both universal experience and in the scientific understanding of the cosmos.

Both Old and New Testaments teach the Unity and the Trinity of the Godhead. The idea that there is only one God, who created all things, is repeatedly emphasized in such Scriptures as Isaiah 45:18:

"For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; ...I am the Lord; and there is none else."

A New Testament example is James 2:19:

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well; the devils also believe, and tremble."

The three persons of the Godhead are, at the same time, noted in such Scriptures as Isaiah 48:16:

"I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I; and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

The speaker in this verse is obviously God, and yet He says He has been sent both by The Lord God (that is, the Father) and by His Spirit (that is, the Holy Spirit).

The New Testament doctrine of the Trinity is evident in such a verse as John 15:26, where the Lord Jesus said:

"But when the Comforter is come whom I will send unto you from the Father, He shall testify of me."

Then there is the baptismal formula:

"baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19).

One name (God) -- yet three names!

JESUS -- That Jesus, as the only-begotten Son of God, actually claimed to be God, equal with the Father, is clear from numerous Scriptures. For example, He said:

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty" (Revelation 1:8).

HOLY SPIRIT -- Some cults falsely teach that the Holy Spirit is an impersonal divine influence of some kind, but the Bible teaches that He is a real person, just as are the Father and the Son. Jesus said:

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak; and he will show you things to come" (John 16:13).

TRI-UNITY -- The teaching of the Bible concerning the Trinity might be summarized thus. God is a Tri-unity, with each Person of the Godhead equally and fully and eternally God. Each is necessary, and each is distinct, and yet all are one. The three Persons appear in a logical, causal order. The Father is the unseen, omnipresent Source of all being, revealed in and by the Son, experienced in and by the Holy Spirit. The Son proceeds from the Father, and the Spirit from the Son. With reference to God's creation, the Father is the Thought behind it, the Son is the Word calling it forth, and the Spirit is the Deed making it a reality.


We "see" God and His great salvation in the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, then "experience" their reality by faith, through the indwelling presence of His Holy Spirit.

Though these relationships seem paradoxical, and to some completely impossible, they are profoundly realistic, and their truth is ingrained deep in man's nature. Thus, men have always sensed first the truth that God must be "out there," everywhere present and the First Cause of all things, but they have corrupted this intuitive knowledge of the Father into pantheism and ultimately into naturalism.

Similarly, men have always felt the need to "see" God in terms of their own experience and understanding, but this knowledge that God must reveal Himself has been distorted into polytheism and idolatry. Men have thus continually erected "models" of God, sometimes in the form of graven images, sometimes even in the form of philosophical systems purporting to represent ultimate reality.

Finally, men have always known that they should be able to have communion with their Creator and to experience His presence "within." But this deep intuition of the Holy Spirit has been corrupted into various forms of false mysticism and fanaticism, and even into spiritism and demonism. Thus, the truth of God's tri-unity is ingrained in man's very nature, but he has often distorted it and substituted a false god in its place.

Answer 4

1 John 5:7-8 is a better proof of the Trinity but you are correct.

Answer 5

WHO IS THE GIVER?

Matt.28:18; All power is given me [ Jesus ] in heaven and on earth.

WHO IS PRAYER DIRECTED TO?

John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

WHO WAS JESUS WITH BEFORE THE WORLD WAS?

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. Exo.6:3; Psm.83:18; Isa.12:2; 26:4; Rev.14:1-7;
John 17:7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. WHO IS THE GIVER?

The Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. Matt.28:18-20; John 17:3; 4:24;

Acs 2:31-35; Heb.1-13; WHO'S RIGHT HAND DOES JESUS SIT AT? Matt.22:37-40;

Matt.12:31; All manner of sin and blasphemy is forgiven but blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.

Answer 6

By saying "I am" I believe he was claiming to be Jehovah, not Elohim. He is still the son of Heavenly Father, a distinct separate being.

Answer 7

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in "OUR IMAGE", "AFTER OUR LIKENESS" and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
There's your trinity. God the Father, God the son, And God the Holy Spirit.

Answer 8

By saying, "I am," Jesus was saying much more than merely affirming his existence. "I Am" is the name given by God to Moses at the burning bush as the name of God. By using it in reference to himself, Jesus was claiming to be God, far more offensive to the Jews than saying he pre-dates God, which is why the Jews picked up stones to stone him.

Answer 9

""Trinity??John 8:58??""

Yes-- three in one.

Answer 10

No, it's backwords.